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Subwoofer ?

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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 12:05
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

[EDIT]
I've measured my main speakers to about 32Hz, but with my subs I have measured to around 18Hz, that's extreme though. What I get is the sustain of low notes now, a standup bass pluck can now play longer since I hear/feel the whole sustain, rather than it getting cut off at say 40Hz. And when the music has it, my room will pressurize nicely and you feel the music as well hear it......It's pretty awesome.

How? RTA, oscilloscope, at what amplitude?

I've used a program I have called TrueRTA. I know the mic I have is probably not calibrated well and I should use an interface between mic and laptop. But I have no HT so getting that stuff does not make sense for me. I've used both a static test tone but normally just use a sweep/chirp test tone set at 10Hz - 22KHz, the mic is set at about 1m from speakers. Anything over 78-80dB gets to be too loud for me on the chirps. When I setup my subs I start at 75dB for the tone on my mains, when done I end up around 79dB with all speakers playing the tone I'm setting crossover for.

I already have a very mild case of tinnitus, I don't need to make it worse!! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 11:51
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

[EDIT]
I've measured my main speakers to about 32Hz, but with my subs I have measured to around 18Hz, that's extreme though. What I get is the sustain of low notes now, a standup bass pluck can now play longer since I hear/feel the whole sustain, rather than it getting cut off at say 40Hz. And when the music has it, my room will pressurize nicely and you feel the music as well hear it......It's pretty awesome.

How? RTA, oscilloscope, at what amplitude?


Edited by JD - February 28 2022 at 11:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 11:45
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Aren't the side firing Subs being blocked by the SVS's since they face out and are on the lower portion of the towers?
No, the side firing woofers are mounted almost mid cabinet, no blockage at all.

[Photo Removed For Space]
Ah, got it. Nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 10:47
Sticking with the OPs post which is about 2-channel setup, not a HT setup. With HT a sub is merely about the LFE channel and bringing out all the booms, bangs and explosions so you rattle the walls. There is a HUGE difference in this and what a sub SHOULD be doing for a 2-channel rig set for music only. If you can hear a sub in a 2-channel set up then you have the sub setup wrong, period. 
The sub(s) should blend with the main speakers, it should simply augment the low end of what your mains cannot do. Very very few main speakers today are built full range, meaning go to 20Hz, most roll off around 30Hz to as high as 50Hz (for small bookshelf models), so you are not experiencing the full range of the music without use of subs.
Sub setup is critical to achieving a great blend, and absolutely you can hear and feel the difference with subs on, sure I have plenty of music that is very difficult to tell any difference but when the music calls for it the subs make it so much more engaging, simply because you are hearing the full range of music, and nothing can correct a badly mixed recording.

Room treatments can help, but honestly most (90%) of pictures I see of peoples music rooms trying to use room treatments is not realistic. We all have furniture, windows, door ways, halls, tables, rugs, carpet, hard wood flooring, curtains, hanging pictures, you name it.....that you would never be able to effectively diffuse and create the reflections properly to make it sound better let alone look good for your spousal unit's approval LOL. If you don't have the gear to accurately reproduce music that has sub 30Hz frequency, no room treatment will make that come out, it starts with the gear first.

I've measured my main speakers to about 32Hz, but with my subs I have measured to around 18Hz, that's extreme though. What I get is the sustain of low notes now, a standup bass pluck can now play longer since I hear/feel the whole sustain, rather than it getting cut off at say 40Hz. And when the music has it, my room will pressurize nicely and you feel the music as well hear it......It's pretty awesome.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2022 at 10:19
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Aren't the side firing Subs being blocked by the SVS's since they face out and are on the lower portion of the towers?
No, the side firing woofers are mounted almost mid cabinet, no blockage at all.

Rega RX5 Loudspeaker Photo #2861022 - Canuck Audio Mart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 17:13
Are? Not really anymore. As in not a job function. Last album I did was BUSKER's Northern Fantasies.



These days my music involvement is in the form of volunteer work as the Main Stage manager at the Orangeville Blues and Jazz Festival.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 16:42
Did not know you are a sound engineer, JD. Tell me more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 14:53
^ Yes. Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 14:50
True. The only engineers that I know who have decent listening rooms and equipment are all retired!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 14:46
I've got walls, floors and furniture. LOL

But seriously, as a former sound engineer myself I guess you might expect that I would go to the n'th degree to tune my listening space. Only here's the thing, I don't have the budget to even come close to it. I probably spend 0.001% of my life actually sitting and listening to music. Most often it is relegated to background sound as I work. Lastly, I don't have the RTA required to make any room treatment truly useful. I came to the realization a long time ago that my personal listening space was never going to come close to my time in the studio.
I think it was reading "Perfecting Sound Forever" by Greg Milner that brought me to that conclusion. It's really just chasing the end of the universe and I have so much more to do with my life.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 14:14
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Describe 'treatment' please.
Absorption and diffusion.

Google "acoustic treatment" if you're interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 13:51
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

And to be honest, most viewing spaces aren't exactly set up for a true surround system so you're really just making yourself feel good by saying "I have a 5.1 or 7.1 system".
No home is setup for listening to stereo music either, without proper acoustic treatment.

Curious, JD as to how much treatment you have for your listening environment.
Describe 'treatment' please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 13:37
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^But you are an experienced recording engineer with a golden ear. For us common folk, adding a sub could make things worse.
Well, No one says that you have have big wattage to get some effect, or a designated listening room with acoustic treatments. A small sub between 70-150 Watts makes a big difference to the sound of a two channel system. For a small investment, the sound of a system can be vastly improved upon. Just don't crank it to 11 as the sub will not keep up. And there's no hard set up involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 13:19
^But you are an experienced recording engineer with a golden ear. For us common folk, adding a sub could make things worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 13:04
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have two 600 watt subs that I can phase differently to enhance my listening room acoustics. But this is not for everyone. But I cannot fathom listening to any two channel system without at least one sub. Aside from the loss of lower bass extention, the dynamics of the music would suffer without one. Oh, and I have bass traps.
Agree with not for everyone and bass traps.

Curious, do you have 6", 8", or greater thickness on your traps and are they floor to ceiling in all corners? As a recording engineer I'm sure you did it right.
6 inch. And I just threw them down where they sounded good. No science involved at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:57
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I have two 600 watt subs that I can phase differently to enhance my listening room acoustics. But this is not for everyone. But I cannot fathom listening to any two channel system without at least one sub. Aside from the loss of lower bass extention, the dynamics of the music would suffer without one. Oh, and I have bass traps.
Agree with not for everyone and bass traps.

Curious, do you have 6", 8", or greater thickness on your traps and are they floor to ceiling in all corners? As a recording engineer I'm sure you did it right.


Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 27 2022 at 13:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:37
I have two 600 watt subs that I can phase differently to enhance my listening room acoustics. But this is not for everyone. But I cannot fathom listening to any two channel system without at least one sub. Aside from the loss of lower bass extention, the dynamics of the music would suffer without one. Oh, and I have bass traps.

Edited by SteveG - February 27 2022 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:33
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

And to be honest, most viewing spaces aren't exactly set up for a true surround system so you're really just making yourself feel good by saying "I have a 5.1 or 7.1 system".
No home is setup for listening to stereo music either, without proper acoustic treatment.

Curious, JD as to how much treatment you have for your listening environment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:29
Properly placed acoustic treatment will give you better sound than just randomly adding a sub.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2022 at 11:42
Absolutely. You don’t need a 5.1 or 7.1 system to understand fully articulated bass.
Subwoofers are highly noticeable in just a 2 channel set up.

Most high end 2 channel set ups use mono blocks and pre amps for the Subwoofer output.
Believe me. Those types of 2 channel set ups with a sub are absolutely incredible, but of course expensive as hell.
For my tastes I’d take that over a 7.1 set up. :)
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