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The Cornerstone of Your Prog Supergroup

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 04:25
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.

Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices! 

Kate Bush is a great call but the rest of the band would have to get used to releasing one album every decade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 03:54
I've thought about this over many years, and my main "cornerstone" prog musician would have to be John Wetton! 

The guy could do it all...from glam (Roxy Music) to Genesis covers (his amazing work with Steve Hackett) and everything in between!!  

Having seen him with LTIA era KC, Asia, and UK, I was always impressed at his talent for singing his heart out while playing complicated, fast lines on bass guitar!  

Here, please enjoy!  









Edited by cstack3 - January 26 2022 at 03:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 22:54
For my own choice…

Firstly, I’d exclude from my band all the egotists who had to be the dominant voice, all those who were unreliable because of drink / drugs / mental instability, all those whose vision of music was too narrow to accommodate a variety of approaches, and all those who are known to be ‘difficult’ (i.e. arseholes). You lose a lot of visionaries that way including the likes of Emerson and Fripp, but if you want a working all-star band then it’s a price I think you have to pay.

I’d look for people with a very distinctive contribution to make as both a player and a writer, and who have shown versatility in the kind of musical situations they can operate in. Multi-instrumentalism would be a benefit but not a requirement. Kerry Minnear is a contender, and might well make the band, but the fact that so far as progressive music is concerned he mainly just worked in the context of GG mitigates against him being the cornerstone. Other names that have crossed my mind are Bruford, Levin and Jon Hiseman. But I really feel like picking Mike Keneally. Brilliant on both guitar and keyboards, writes fascinating music, has worked in a multitude of contexts, and seems like a lovely chap.



Edited by Mascodagama - January 25 2022 at 23:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Edited by Mascodagama - January 25 2022 at 22:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:22
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Predictably from me, the late great Keith Emerson but second choice would be Steve Howe. Such a shame those 2 never worked together.


I believe I read sometime that, well, Keith Emerson wanted his keyboard driven trio from the beginning, but if he could have had one guitar player with him, he would have liked Steve Howe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
Hmmm … with a trio, everyone is a cornerstone.

Ron Jarzombek on guitar. Even though he is well known for moving the frontier in Prog Metal, he can play any style and does it well. He has also worked with many artists and is genuinely a nice person who cares more about the music than any other aspect (money, fame, etc.). He is a perfectionist, which would guarantee a top quality product that would be very proggy.

Percussion would be Bill Bruford for obvious reasons. Plus, Ron would need someone who can handle 13/8 time signatures with ease.

Bass, vocals, and keyboards … I’m going with Geddy Lee. Not only can he play and sing complex patterns, but he would ensure that the music includes both extremely proggy songs, as well as radio friendly music of a complex nature. So, Geddy Lee would loosely direct the project.

A nice trio! Just need to give them access to a high quality studio with top notch engineers for a few days. I would love to hear the results!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
^I'm shocked that you didn't read my post! I'm not talking about innovations, I'm talking about song writing. I'm not sure how much input Levin had on the 80's KC albums, and Tony's solo material is not good to my ears. That is what I'm talking about - his ability to write good songs. 

Your statement "He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did!" is silly. Most of KC's greatest music was created before he was a member. 

Holdsworth was also an innovator. Ever heard anyone else play the SynthAxe as well as Allan?



Edited by Grumpyprogfan - January 25 2022 at 11:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:13
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.

Pat Metheny would be my second choice.



Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.

If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.

I'm stunned! I am in shock! Have you ever heard or seen Tony Levin? He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did! And he makes it all seem so effortless! (To him it is effortless!) Have you seen/heard the innovations he made to his craft? Do you know how hard it is to play a ChapmanStick much less to play it well?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:05
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck3 JohnnyCanuck3 wrote:

My cornerstone for a super prog group would be Neal Morse.
Why?
1.  He's already a cornerstone for several groups, including Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Group, Flying Colors, etc.
2.  He is obviously able to work with a diverse array of artists, as evidenced by the various groups he is in.  Seems to get along well with others, and seems to be well liked.
3.  A prolific songwriter and seems to be comfortable spending endless hours in the studio and/or on tour.
4.  A great musician, playing keyboards, guitar, mandolin, and who knows what else.
5.  Able to work in a number of different styles/genres of music.

Another GREAT selection! I have to agree that he would be a perfect cornerstone! My one hope would be that Neal would also be open to ideas and agendas that might not necessarily be overtly Christian in their message/intent, otherwise, build away. (Perhaps, Johnny, your ideal band is already intact: the Transatlantic lineup is pretty tough to beat!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:01
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.

Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyCanuck3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 08:05
My cornerstone for a super prog group would be Neal Morse.
Why?
1.  He's already a cornerstone for several groups, including Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Group, Flying Colors, etc.
2.  He is obviously able to work with a diverse array of artists, as evidenced by the various groups he is in.  Seems to get along well with others, and seems to be well liked.
3.  A prolific songwriter and seems to be comfortable spending endless hours in the studio and/or on tour.
4.  A great musician, playing keyboards, guitar, mandolin, and who knows what else.
5.  Able to work in a number of different styles/genres of music.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 07:12
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.

Pat Metheny would be my second choice.



Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.

If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.



I much prefer Holdsworth as a sideman to a leader. I find his solo stuff way too self indulgent. He may have been too much of a tortured soul to lead a band.

Agree on the Levin solo material, I like it but its hardly ground breaking. Probably the ultimate perfect sideman.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 25 2022 at 07:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:47
The problem with this is that the very best are really strong personalities, and may not be able to accept anyone else leading. Fripp has played with many and is a genius, still a supergroup around Fripp is bound to play Fripp music and nothing else (of course there's some space for variation within Fripp music, but still). Levin or Bruford are better candidates for this task, having played with so many other geniuses. Still I was normally more convinced by them playing Fripp music rather than leading their own band (even though Bruford has some good stuff as band leader). I won't go for these rather obvious choices and explore something else.

The next candidate is from my favourite band, Jaki Liebezeit of Can. Outside Can Jaki has done a lot of stuff (very little if anything of which is on PA). If he were still alive, for sure he'd be up for team play, still his drumming is so characteristic that wherever he has his hands in sounds like him. The issue here is that he is really not a composer (also Holger has said that he's quite scary but I hope the others in the band are strong enough personalities that they can deal with that).

So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:44
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.

Pat Metheny would be my second choice.



Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.

If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:37
Clapeverybody!

Edited by BrufordFreak - January 25 2022 at 11:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:36
Carl Palmer and Steve Howe are also admirable choices. Both for their obvious talents and versatility, Steve for his indefatigability (the guy's still pumping it out after almost 60 years!).



Edited by BrufordFreak - January 25 2022 at 11:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:34
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.

 Now, this is a very interesting choice--and one worth following up on. I've loved the Henry Cow stuff I've stumbled across in the last 14 years but have never gone on an actual "Chris Cutler Quest." Perhaps it is time!

Bruford i& Squire are certainly good suggestions. 

I'd love to suggest Fripp, and while he'd be great at leading in the short term the band would dissolve in 3 years.

Bob and Bill, of course, were considered. Again, like Chris, I think them a bit too narrow-minded in their focuses. Yes, Bob did all that acoustic and pop-oriented stuff, and Bill did Yes, KC, solo, Earthworks and jazz, but still, I just think they're a bit too monochromatic for my purposes. I want my band to be able to play Prog Folk, Prog Electronic, Prog Metal, and Indo-Raga Prog as well as all the others. Plus, I'm not sure I think of either as great leaders. Strong willed, goal-oriented, yes, but somewhat reluctant collaborators.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:28
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Keith Emerson...for all the obvious reason I guess.

Pro's
Innovator
Composer
Multi-style player
Multitude of sounds
Has played with some of the best rockers in the world

Con's
He's dead


Keith was one of my top 5 considerations.

Don't get me wrong....Tony Levin IS a tour de force on the rhythm section, and to be honest he was easily in MY top 5. I just felt Emerson had quite an edge as a composer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:27
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.

Sadly, this is an artist that is brought up frequently that I do not appreciate well enough. If it weren't so much for the fact that I find Jethro Tull music so irritating, I might explore more. Do you have any suggestions of his play outside of Tull?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:25
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Well, I can think of many dream line-ups, but one of the best, if not the very best, I don't have to imagine, for that is Yes, CttE line-up. So, who would we think was the cornerstone for that one? I guess most would say that it was Crhis Squire...

Another artist I love and considered but rejected because he never demonstrated (to me) a desire, much less a penchant, for testing himself outside of his comfort zones. (E.g. Chris playing folk, pop, or jazz???) Plus, he was reputedly not a very team-oriented player. (Just ask Bill Bruford.)

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