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Dylan or Shadows? |
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Spaciousmind 
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 Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:35 |
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Now you are really going back in time Steve :)
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:34 |
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If you read my first post: "But I do want to ask about two songs from 1962 and your opinions of these two songs and the impact they may have had to that generation of 1962 listeners and musicians, inviting them, almost challenging them to explore new directions for their music." It is an invitation to generally discuss what songs or even artists influenced others to change music through periods of time to get to the places where we are today. Your assumption that my post is about Prog FOLK is incorrect as I would not have mentioned The Shadows or The Tornados if that were the case. I am guessing you came to that conclusion because of my lengthy Steeleye Span post or the Dylan example? So I agree with you if this topic fits better elsewhere then by all means lets have a moderator move it.
Edited by Spaciousmind - March 21 2021 at 15:37 |
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SteveG
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:24 |
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Ah, these two have nothing on Woody Guthie's Dust Bowl Ballads from 1941 as it is the first concept album ever made. Now, Woody was progressive in more ways then one. Btw, he also has the first recorded version of House of the Rising Sun in 1944.
Edited by SteveG - March 21 2021 at 15:26 |
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dr wu23
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:18 |
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^ Not bothering me...I just was following up on the 'did either track influence the future of prog' idea...so I assume you must feel that if you placed it here.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:13 |
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My bad, for placing it here. If it disturbs and someone is able to move it, then by all means lets move the post to a differ area.
Edited by Spaciousmind - March 21 2021 at 15:13 |
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dr wu23
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 15:08 |
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It is indeed a 'progression' of ideas but I really don't know how much either of these things influenced later music and or 'prog rock'. Certainly as pointed out the Animals borrowed from the Dylan version for their own and some consider their track folk rock and they might not have recorded it without hearing Dylan...again not sure how influential that track was in the future of things. At any rate you said you were not interested in exploring the origins of prog folk yet you put your thread in the prog forum and not general music....
 Edited by dr wu23 - March 21 2021 at 15:15 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 14:21 |
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Ooooops I almost forgot about another 1962 song from December of that year. Telstar by the Tornados. Could well be an influencer to the birth of symphonic prog / electronic prog. I suspect they may have also been influenced by the Shadows :)
Nick
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nick_h_nz
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Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 14:07 |
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For sure! Leadbelly, for one, did a great version. |
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Icarium
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 14:01 |
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Steve Howe has said and you can hear hes influenced by the Shadows, Hank Marvin and Cliff Richrds.
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 13:55 |
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I also like the Animals version much more than the Dylan version. In fact I like a couple of the 50s Blues/Folk versions better than the Dylan version :) Generally speaking, I doubt that any of us would be here in a Prog forum if we did not like the Animals version more.
 Edited by Spaciousmind - March 21 2021 at 14:02 |
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nick_h_nz
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 13:43 |
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Swings and roundabouts. The Animals’ version certainly wouldn’t have existed, or at the very least not in the form it took, without Dylan’s version. Their guitarist freely admitted he took the chords from Dylan’s version, so it was never any secret that Dylan’s version was a major influence for the Animals’ version. But, supposedly, it was then the Animals’ version which led Dylan to go electric. I don’t know how true that is, but I’ve heard it said often enough, and I haven’t heard of Dylan denying it. 🤷🏻♂️ As for the Animals’ version being folk, it’s very often said to be the first folk rock song. Whether or not that is the case is somewhat irrelevant, so much as the point that as rock as it was compared with previous versions of the classic folk song, it was still considered folk. For the record my favourite versions of the song are by the Animals and Nina Simone. So while I will happily acknowledge that without Dylan’s version, the Animals’ version might not have existed, I still find the Animals’ version far more enjoyable. Incidentally, Nina Simone performed House of the Rising Sun on her “At The Village Gate” live album, which was released in....1962! Edited by nick_h_nz - March 21 2021 at 13:49 |
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 13:04 |
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No one invents change its a progression of ideas that form from visuals, words, smells and sounds that surround you, that touch and influence you. My questions is more around what is the catalyst for change in music and I do think these two songs, invited change at that time. As for the Animals version again not exactly original as a song but familiar to the world as a result of its predecessors. They were obviously influenced, and possibly the Animals version may never have come about with out the Dylan version. Nick
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dr wu23
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:49 |
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For me there is nothing special about either track as far as influencing future prog folk rock ..and I prefer The Animals version of Rising Sun. And tbh I never even thought of that track as being 'folk rock' when The Animals did it.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Manuel
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:39 |
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I think they did influence some of the artists of the time, and added to the stream of influences that eventually gave birth to progessive rock.
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Spaciousmind
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Posted: March 21 2021 at 12:28 |
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I know roots of Progressive Rock has been discussed to death here, so I am not going there. But I do want to ask about two songs from 1962 and your opinions of these two songs and the impact they may have had to that generation of 1962 listeners and musicians, inviting them, almost challenging them to explore new directions for their music.
The first song is from Bob Dylan from his self titled album that came out in March 1962, singing House of the Rising Sun, an old blues song that dates back to the 1920 for blues and if you research it, may even go back as far as the 16th century as a folk ballad. The second song of course completely different is from The Shadows and for that time period Rock N Roll, that was played live in the same month March 1962 called Little B. Which still even for today's ears I think remains an amazing drum solo. At that time the Shadows were considered by many as the best band in the world and this must have most likely knocked the socks off a live audience. I tend to agree that the Shadows must have sounded as the World's best at that time when you add Hank Marvin and Company to this kind of drumming. Anyway your thoughts about these two songs from almost 60 years ago, were these two songs big influencers to future drummers, musicians, singers, writers yes or no? For the year 1962 or earlier what else would you add or consider as game changers? Nick
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SteveG wrote: