What happens with maiden?

its funny that mikeenregalia thinks KAMELOT and QUEENSRYCHE and PORCUPINE TREE to be VERY progressive while maiden is not at all progressive...

and certified YOU turned to insults by comparing the crap that is ac/dc to maiden by saying they where just as progressive.

And songs like I surrender. since you been gone and street of dreams leave no doubt that Rainbow is a very progressive band i can agree with that

And i dont care to ask what ye rates as the first prog metal band as im sure you are a metallica fanboy wich thinks ST.ANGER is the biggest prog-masterpiece since close to the edge.

And there are certainly more power-metalish prog-metal bands on this page than there are thrash-metalish prog metal bands on the site.

And yes maiden uses BASS,DRUMS,GUITARS on all the tracks so i can agree that it sounds exactly the same...they should have changed instruments to TRUMPETS,SAXOPHONES and BAGPIPES so that it would not all sound the same

No i dont care to discuss with neither Mikeenregalia or the metallica fanboy as their opinions are to silly to be discussed...and afterall i dont think mikeenregalia has said ONE thing that i can agree with on this forum

Ed_The_Dead wrote:  Thx Mike btw why don't You try messing the albums up a bit? Not one artist - 1 or 2 album & then another artist... Separate Tyranny from Room V, Awake for SDoIT 'n'stuff...  Btw.. I'll be laughing my head off cuz of You if Maiden get here

I won't mind if they're added ... I like Iron Maiden. I just would not add them myself, because I don't think they're progressive enough ... but if I'm overruled in this matter: let's put it this way: Worse things could happen.

 Thx Mike

btw why don't You try messing the albums up a bit? Not one artist - 1 or 2 album & then another artist... Separate Tyranny from Room V, Awake for SDoIT 'n'stuff...

 Btw.. I'll be laughing my head off cuz of You if Maiden get here

Small prog influeces... DIO is more prog... Ow God, I give up...

Btw... The beatles are god damn proto prog!...

Maiden simply shouldn't be put on here, they're metal end of story.  They may have prog influences but so what?! MY band has prog influences does that make my BLUES band proggressive?
They make songs that are differnent but still every song has galloping bass lines, the solos have an iron maiden feel to them. You can say some songs sound differnent and i can do the same for motorhead and ac/dc - Whorehouse Blues and the razzors edge! 
Just because a band shows a tiny amount of prog does not mean they be included on a prog specialist website, and i disagree with Queen and Deep Purple being added on here but if Iron Maiden are added then people will ask for the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who and maybe even sabbath to be added!

Useful_Idiot wrote: As Garion already mentioned, Maiden is still under conisderation.  It's a tough call, there's no question that they've influenced tons of prog-metal bands.  My vote is against them though, there are countless other influential metal bands who've had some very proggy moments despite being far from prog bands.  If we add Maiden, it opens the door for tons of other non-prog metal bands.

It should be the other way round ... Prog Related (aka Prog Influenced) should be for bands that were influenced by prog, not the other way round. Iron Maiden influenced many other metal bands, including progressive ones. But I think they always influenced the metal side of those bands ... not the progressive aspects.

Certif1ed wrote: maidenrulez wrote: Certif1ed wrote: Metallica influenced far more (prog) metal bands and redefined the entire metal genre more often and more deeply than Iron Maiden did, and both Rainbow and Dio had many proggy elements. Just a couple of points worth considering . AND MAIDEN INFLUENCED METLLALLICA...think about that RAINBOW is exactly the same stuff as DEEP PURPLE ie not metal and DIO does not suddenly get proggy because it feutures DIO on vocals and also DIO came later than IRON MAIDEN A different discussion really, but since you bring it up... There is not much Iron Maiden influence in Metallica's music - but there is a more direct link from Metallica to, say, Dream Theater or just about any band playing metal from the 1990s onwards. Rainbow has Ritchie Blackmore, but the style of music is different to Deep Purple - less improv and more classical allusions, with mystical themes to some of the lyrics and long song structures every now and again. Dio's own band continues the fantasy themes to new depths (heights?), with startlingly accurate guitar work, obviously inspired by but not copied from Van Halen, and precision riffing similar to Black Sabbath's "Heaven and Hell" - there is a direct line that is crowned by the voice of RJD that shows a progression from Metal as it was in the 1970s (yes, it did exist back then) through the NWOBHM (New Wave, remember!). Iron Maiden's sound is unique to Maiden (and the rip-off bands like Helloween, etc.) - it is not a general influence on the metal genre, and it has not particularly changed over the years. Each Iron Maiden album sounds unmistakably like an Iron Maiden album, with the same song structures and riff patterns done slightly differently - like AC/DC or Motorhead. Iron Maiden in 1983 released "Piece of Mind". In my opinion, Dio's "Holy Diver" is a much better album - much stronger all round. "Piece of Mind" was hardly prog... and nor was "The Number of The Beast" or anything Paul DiAnno recorded with IM. Sure there are moments, like "Phantom of the Opera", but Rainbow had been doing proggy things way before then. "Holy Diver" contains many proggy themes, the songs are very well and dramatically structured, and there are moments where the band are each doing their own thing. Note "moments", not entire passages as with bona fide prog. This is something that Iron Maiden lack. Remember also that RJD was in a band called Elf before he joined Rainbow in 1976 (or was it 5?), so he predates Iron Maiden by a VERY long time! The best Bruce Dickinson can manage is a band called Samson, who were amazing, and put out two very raw-edged metal albums in the late 1970s. "Head On" is well worth checking out. Quite progressive. Metallica obliterated all of that with a single stroke - aptly named "Kill 'Em All", which rips the pages out of the history book as far as the metal genre is concerned, by introducing the concept of thrash, without succumbing to the undiluted form, unlike most other thrash bands at the time. Metallica always denied being a thrash band - and they were right. They used thrash techniques to develop a very progressive form of metal right up to "...And Justice For All", whose riffs can be heard virtually verbatim in Dream Theater's early work. As if to underline this, "Kill 'Em All" has fantasy themes in some of the lyrics - indicating prog pretensions. This is underlined by the developing riffs - "Seek And Destroy" has some of the most organically developing riffs in metaldom, and "The Four Horsemen" relates all the material back to itself. A stark contrast to those sad bands who go off at tangents because they cannot think of a way to develop the existing material.     And that's (partly) why Metallica are more progressive than Iron Maiden, and should be considered over IM as prog related.   Think about that

First off Lars Ulrich said that maiden had a huge affect on them and a reason why it does not sound like maiden is because metallica messed it up trying to show the world how fast they can riff their gutiars and how agressive they can sound and the main reason why you dont want maiden to be added is basically because you seem to like metallica, dio and rainbow over maiden and that is fine but you cant use that to back up your argument why it is not progressive. And comparing it to ac/dc shows what a complete moron you are

Obviously rainbow had about two albums with dio before they went totally 80's synth pop and also DIO's song structure is just plain heavy metal as done by judas priest.

All the maiden songs sound the same eh? Ah ok have you heard

Prodigal Son

Blood Brothers

Sign Of the Cross

The Unbelivier

Seventh son of a seventh son

Genghis Khan

Dance Of death

To tame a land

Revelations

Hooks in you

Deja Vu

Another Life

Gangland

Transylvania

Wastin love

Montesegur

Dream of mirrors

The Nomad

Judgement of heaven

How the f**k can you say that these songs sound the same?  

I dont care how much metallica is your favorite band...they where not the first PROG METAL BAND ON THE SCENE REMEMBER THAT YOU LITTLE TWAT

Edited by maidenrulez

maidenrulez wrote: Certif1ed wrote: Metallica influenced far more (prog) metal bands and redefined the entire metal genre more often and more deeply than Iron Maiden did, and both Rainbow and Dio had many proggy elements. Just a couple of points worth considering . AND MAIDEN INFLUENCED METLLALLICA...think about that RAINBOW is exactly the same stuff as DEEP PURPLE ie not metal and DIO does not suddenly get proggy because it feutures DIO on vocals and also DIO came later than IRON MAIDEN

A different discussion really, but since you bring it up...

There is not much Iron Maiden influence in Metallica's music - but there is a more direct link from Metallica to, say, Dream Theater or just about any band playing metal from the 1990s onwards.

Rainbow has Ritchie Blackmore, but the style of music is different to Deep Purple - less improv and more classical allusions, with mystical themes to some of the lyrics and long song structures every now and again.

Dio's own band continues the fantasy themes to new depths (heights?), with startlingly accurate guitar work, obviously inspired by but not copied from Van Halen, and precision riffing similar to Black Sabbath's "Heaven and Hell" - there is a direct line that is crowned by the voice of RJD that shows a progression from Metal as it was in the 1970s (yes, it did exist back then) through the NWOBHM (New Wave, remember!). Iron Maiden's sound is unique to Maiden (and the rip-off bands like Helloween, etc.) - it is not a general influence on the metal genre, and it has not particularly changed over the years. Each Iron Maiden album sounds unmistakably like an Iron Maiden album, with the same song structures and riff patterns done slightly differently - like AC/DC or Motorhead.

Iron Maiden in 1983 released "Piece of Mind". In my opinion, Dio's "Holy Diver" is a much better album - much stronger all round. "Piece of Mind" was hardly prog... and nor was "The Number of The Beast" or anything Paul DiAnno recorded with IM. Sure there are moments, like "Phantom of the Opera", but Rainbow had been doing proggy things way before then. "Holy Diver" contains many proggy themes, the songs are very well and dramatically structured, and there are moments where the band are each doing their own thing. Note "moments", not entire passages as with bona fide prog. This is something that Iron Maiden lack.

Remember also that RJD was in a band called Elf before he joined Rainbow in 1976 (or was it 5?), so he predates Iron Maiden by a VERY long time! The best Bruce Dickinson can manage is a band called Samson, who were amazing, and put out two very raw-edged metal albums in the late 1970s. "Head On" is well worth checking out. Quite progressive.

Metallica obliterated all of that with a single stroke - aptly named "Kill 'Em All", which rips the pages out of the history book as far as the metal genre is concerned, by introducing the concept of thrash, without succumbing to the undiluted form, unlike most other thrash bands at the time.

Metallica always denied being a thrash band - and they were right. They used thrash techniques to develop a very progressive form of metal right up to "...And Justice For All", whose riffs can be heard virtually verbatim in Dream Theater's early work. As if to underline this, "Kill 'Em All" has fantasy themes in some of the lyrics - indicating prog pretensions. This is underlined by the developing riffs - "Seek And Destroy" has some of the most organically developing riffs in metaldom, and "The Four Horsemen" relates all the material back to itself. A stark contrast to those sad bands who go off at tangents because they cannot think of a way to develop the existing material.

 

 

And that's (partly) why Metallica are more progressive than Iron Maiden, and should be considered over IM as prog related.

 

Think about that

Edited by Certif1ed

Certif1ed wrote: Metallica influenced far more (prog) metal bands and redefined the entire metal genre more often and more deeply than Iron Maiden did, and both Rainbow and Dio had many proggy elements. Just a couple of points worth considering .

AND MAIDEN INFLUENCED METLLALLICA...think about that

RAINBOW is exactly the same stuff as DEEP PURPLE ie not metal and DIO does not suddenly get proggy because it feutures DIO on vocals and also DIO came later than IRON MAIDEN

Metallica influenced far more (prog) metal bands and redefined the entire metal genre more often and more deeply than Iron Maiden did, and both Rainbow and Dio had many proggy elements.

Just a couple of points worth considering .