Go off and do something else. Trying to convince yourself that you like something is a waste of time. ELP has loads of classical influences. Spend a few minutes on YouTube and form your own opinion. It'll take less time than other people spend on a thread replying to you, coincidentally wasting their time as well.
I waste my time as I please
ELP is not a band that I have dismissed. I like their first album. And I like to read what others have to say about it. People who can give me a better further introduction than Youtube. And this is a discussion forum, so having a discussion is not wasting time right? People could easily choose not to reply.
Someone earlier in the thread said "Life’s too short. Why not listen to things you like instead?". And of course that's true. But I think part of being a fan of an adventurous genre like prog rock is sometimes putting some effort into exploring music and trying to "get it". And reading reviews and having discussions can further give some understanding and depth to the music. Otherwise we could all just put up some pop music and just "consume" music.
Dude, you just ask the questions you want to ask. if no one gets back, you have your answer. Like you said this is discussion forum.. if people want to discuss, great. if they don't then (written) silence speaks volumes. There's as many positive people on here as grumpies.
I'm not really sure what you mean. I did get a lot of helpful replies and interesting discussion, apart from the two members suddenly barking at each other on the previous page. But stuff like that always happens on the internet.
Anyway I just finished listening to Brain Salad Surgery. Benny The Bouncer was a brief moment of silliness but I enjoyed the whole album. And Karn Evil 9 is a very good track, maybe a tad long-winded.
Er.. yes, sorry about that. I was trying to say that I agree with your reply to Davesax1965. Its up to the individual replying (or considering replying) to decide if its a good use of their time and bad manners to accuse you of wasting their time. Was that any clearer? if not, sorry again
Mental note to self: never never try and write anything online (particularly pompous nonsense) after a hard days work and a couple of glasses of homemade wine
I like their first album, and that's the only one I kept. The other albums I've heard in the past were too much trying to mix in classical influences for my taste. I like it when bands use techniques derived from classical music, but I don't like it when rock bands try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces. To me it's like orchestras playing pop/rock music. It's gimmicky.
But with all the praise I see you guys give ELP, I'm thinking I should give them another try. But what album?
I dont love ELP. I am not a fan, but I listen to their firsts 4 albums 4-5 times a year.
My personal opinion?
Nice (Ars Longa) and EL&P were very very important for the history of prog, especially for symphonic prog, so for my knowledge was important to listen to them.
I is a good album, the most accesible, and maybe the best. The beginning, the firsts two songs are beautiful,
but the rest ... not so much.
Tarkus is a good album, includes their best elaborate suite (but the side with conventional songs is modest).
Pictures is their worse album, embarassing.
Trilogy isn't bad, but it's modest.
Brain Salad is a good albu. May you like it? ... oh well ... it depends ... it contains their mastodontic suite Karn Evil 9: a great effort but... Is it a masterpiece? No, in my opinion, no. For 12 minutes it is very forced, almost irritating.
Maybe you can like Tarkus (the suite) or Brain Salad (The songs or the Suite)...
In short: in my opinion EL&P have not published any real masterpiece bu their contribution to symphonic prog was relevant and every albums (and suite) contains some genial passages or some beautiful songs. Greg Lake is a wonderful singer and every time it's a pleasure listen to his voice. Their problem was not try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces, because most of the time they did a good work with single songs (not in Pictures), their problems were two:
1) They were not great composers in terms of melody (Greg Lake was the best)
2) They exagerate with virtuosistic passages all together, especially Emerson and Palmer: in this way
they produced a lot of smoke but little roast, they distract the listener to the theme of the music and transform most emotion into din.
Ok, this is my opinion, tastes are tastes, EL&P lovers please dont shoot on the piano man, pardon, on the writer!
PS It has happened also in the history of classical music: hardly a great virtuoso was also a great composer, because he tends to slobber, to exceed in virtuosity rather than in composition.
Actually very broadly speaking I agree with an awful lot of that and I am a fan! ELP were far from perfect and in my opinion they never tried to be. Emerson was very into 'ideas' and tried not only be inventive but also re-inventive. Apparently (and this was once explained to an audience by the keyboard player in one of the tribute bands) he would break from convention quite deliberately in how he wrote music.
The Brain Salad Surgery album was a breaking point for many. Emerson and Palmer were challenging each other and it does feel like a race at times. That said it still seems very unique that they did this as I don't remember many bands approaching music this way. It was very personality driven progressive rock but much more emphasis on the 'rock'. Perhaps they transcended the genre to an extent because they could pitch up their tent with the likes of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. Can you really imagine Gentle Giant or VDDG headlining a massive festival like The California Jam? I'm not convinced though that this really satisfied Keith Emerson. Works was really what he wanted to do. Have you heard his Piano Concerto? I would be very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.
I believe that EL&P had a desecrating attitude towards classical music, that is, they exasperated it with furious arrangements, almost heavy metal, in fact I have read several times that we can consider them
the punks of prog.
But if you act on intensity (like punk groups), you should concentrate the emotion on few notes, if you put together intensity and a lot of notes, continuos changes of melodies, variations on the theme (like prog groups), you create confusion, a music satured and sustained that it's difficult to follow.
I've never listened to Piano Concerto by K. Emerson. Do you mean this piece?
Tomorrow I will listen to it.
And even this:
Edited by jamesbaldwin - April 19 2020 at 16:29
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
Run, don't walk to Brain Salad Surgery. Run away from Love Beach. Run awaaaaaay!!! BTW I am a huge fan of their Pictures At An Exhibition. I love the vocals that Lake added. Check out the video that I am sure is on youtube.
Edited by Slartibartfast - April 19 2020 at 16:15
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
I like their first album, and that's the only one I kept. The other albums I've heard in the past were too much trying to mix in classical influences for my taste. I like it when bands use techniques derived from classical music, but I don't like it when rock bands try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces. To me it's like orchestras playing pop/rock music. It's gimmicky.
But with all the praise I see you guys give ELP, I'm thinking I should give them another try. But what album?
I dont love ELP. I am not a fan, but I listen to their firsts 4 albums 4-5 times a year.
My personal opinion?
Nice (Ars Longa) and EL&P were very very important for the history of prog, especially for symphonic prog, so for my knowledge was important to listen to them.
I is a good album, the most accesible, and maybe the best. The beginning, the firsts two songs are beautiful,
but the rest ... not so much.
Tarkus is a good album, includes their best elaborate suite (but the side with conventional songs is modest).
Pictures is their worse album, embarassing.
Trilogy isn't bad, but it's modest.
Brain Salad is a good albu. May you like it? ... oh well ... it depends ... it contains their mastodontic suite Karn Evil 9: a great effort but... Is it a masterpiece? No, in my opinion, no. For 12 minutes it is very forced, almost irritating.
Maybe you can like Tarkus (the suite) or Brain Salad (The songs or the Suite)...
In short: in my opinion EL&P have not published any real masterpiece bu their contribution to symphonic prog was relevant and every albums (and suite) contains some genial passages or some beautiful songs. Greg Lake is a wonderful singer and every time it's a pleasure listen to his voice. Their problem was not try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces, because most of the time they did a good work with single songs (not in Pictures), their problems were two:
1) They were not great composers in terms of melody (Greg Lake was the best)
2) They exagerate with virtuosistic passages all together, especially Emerson and Palmer: in this way
they produced a lot of smoke but little roast, they distract the listener to the theme of the music and transform most emotion into din.
Ok, this is my opinion, tastes are tastes, EL&P lovers please dont shoot on the piano man, pardon, on the writer!
PS It has happened also in the history of classical music: hardly a great virtuoso was also a great composer, because he tends to slobber, to exceed in virtuosity rather than in composition.
Actually very broadly speaking I agree with an awful lot of that and I am a fan! ELP were far from perfect and in my opinion they never tried to be. Emerson was very into 'ideas' and tried not only be inventive but also re-inventive. Apparently (and this was once explained to an audience by the keyboard player in one of the tribute bands) he would break from convention quite deliberately in how he wrote music.
The Brain Salad Surgery album was a breaking point for many. Emerson and Palmer were challenging each other and it does feel like a race at times. That said it still seems very unique that they did this as I don't remember many bands approaching music this way. It was very personality driven progressive rock but much more emphasis on the 'rock'. Perhaps they transcended the genre to an extent because they could pitch up their tent with the likes of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. Can you really imagine Gentle Giant or VDDG headlining a massive festival like The California Jam? I'm not convinced though that this really satisfied Keith Emerson. Works was really what he wanted to do. Have you heard his Piano Concerto? I would be very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.
I think that someway EL&P's attitude to classical music was very dissacrant, aggressive, almost heavy metal... in fact sometimes I've read that they were the punk of progressive. But if you act on intensity (like punk groups) you should concentrate the emotion on few notes, if you put together intensity and a lot of notes, continuos changes of melodies, variations on the theme (like prog bands), you create confusion, a music satured and sustained that it's difficult to follow.
Piano concert: Do you mean this composition? I've never listened to it.
The California Jam is here
I try to listen to them.
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
And Karn Evil 9 is a very good track, maybe a tad long-winded.
Welcome to Progressive Rock. Actually, on the original vinyl version, Karn Evil 9 starts on Side 1. On the CD version I have, the break in the original track has been removed so that Karn Evil 9 is one continuous piece of music.
Thanks!
I noticed the song being almost half an hour, that wouldn't fit on one LP side. I have the 1993 CD, that was the best sounding version I could find, and it also has Karn Evil 9 as a continuous track. Cool that they "fixed" the break between side one and two.
And Karn Evil 9 is a very good track, maybe a tad long-winded.
Welcome to Progressive Rock. Actually, on the original vinyl version, Karn Evil 9 starts on Side 1. On the CD version I have, the break in the original track has been removed so that Karn Evil 9 is one continuous piece of music.
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Go off and do something else. Trying to convince yourself that you like something is a waste of time. ELP has loads of classical influences. Spend a few minutes on YouTube and form your own opinion. It'll take less time than other people spend on a thread replying to you, coincidentally wasting their time as well.
I waste my time as I please
ELP is not a band that I have dismissed. I like their first album. And I like to read what others have to say about it. People who can give me a better further introduction than Youtube. And this is a discussion forum, so having a discussion is not wasting time right? People could easily choose not to reply.
Someone earlier in the thread said "Life’s too short. Why not listen to things you like instead?". And of course that's true. But I think part of being a fan of an adventurous genre like prog rock is sometimes putting some effort into exploring music and trying to "get it". And reading reviews and having discussions can further give some understanding and depth to the music. Otherwise we could all just put up some pop music and just "consume" music.
Dude, you just ask the questions you want to ask. if no one gets back, you have your answer. Like you said this is discussion forum.. if people want to discuss, great. if they don't then (written) silence speaks volumes. There's as many positive people on here as grumpies.
I'm not really sure what you mean. I did get a lot of helpful replies and interesting discussion, apart from the two members suddenly barking at each other on the previous page. But stuff like that always happens on the internet.
Anyway I just finished listening to Brain Salad Surgery. Benny The Bouncer was a brief moment of silliness but I enjoyed the whole album. And Karn Evil 9 is a very good track, maybe a tad long-winded.
Go off and do something else. Trying to convince yourself that you like something is a waste of time. ELP has loads of classical influences. Spend a few minutes on YouTube and form your own opinion. It'll take less time than other people spend on a thread replying to you, coincidentally wasting their time as well.
I waste my time as I please
ELP is not a band that I have dismissed. I like their first album. And I like to read what others have to say about it. People who can give me a better further introduction than Youtube. And this is a discussion forum, so having a discussion is not wasting time right? People could easily choose not to reply.
Someone earlier in the thread said "Life’s too short. Why not listen to things you like instead?". And of course that's true. But I think part of being a fan of an adventurous genre like prog rock is sometimes putting some effort into exploring music and trying to "get it". And reading reviews and having discussions can further give some understanding and depth to the music. Otherwise we could all just put up some pop music and just "consume" music.
Dude, you just ask the questions you want to ask. if no one gets back, you have your answer. Like you said this is discussion forum.. if people want to discuss, great. if they don't then (written) silence speaks volumes. There's as many positive people on here as grumpies.
I like their first album, and that's the only one I kept. The other albums I've heard in the past were too much trying to mix in classical influences for my taste. I like it when bands use techniques derived from classical music, but I don't like it when rock bands try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces. To me it's like orchestras playing pop/rock music. It's gimmicky.
But with all the praise I see you guys give ELP, I'm thinking I should give them another try. But what album?
I dont love ELP. I am not a fan, but I listen to their firsts 4 albums 4-5 times a year.
My personal opinion?
Nice (Ars Longa) and EL&P were very very important for the history of prog, especially for symphonic prog, so for my knowledge was important to listen to them.
I is a good album, the most accesible, and maybe the best. The beginning, the firsts two songs are beautiful,
but the rest ... not so much.
Tarkus is a good album, includes their best elaborate suite (but the side with conventional songs is modest).
Pictures is their worse album, embarassing.
Trilogy isn't bad, but it's modest.
Brain Salad is a good albu. May you like it? ... oh well ... it depends ... it contains their mastodontic suite Karn Evil 9: a great effort but... Is it a masterpiece? No, in my opinion, no. For 12 minutes it is very forced, almost irritating.
Maybe you can like Tarkus (the suite) or Brain Salad (The songs or the Suite)...
In short: in my opinion EL&P have not published any real masterpiece bu their contribution to symphonic prog was relevant and every albums (and suite) contains some genial passages or some beautiful songs. Greg Lake is a wonderful singer and every time it's a pleasure listen to his voice. Their problem was not try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces, because most of the time they did a good work with single songs (not in Pictures), their problems were two:
1) They were not great composers in terms of melody (Greg Lake was the best)
2) They exagerate with virtuosistic passages all together, especially Emerson and Palmer: in this way
they produced a lot of smoke but little roast, they distract the listener to the theme of the music and transform most emotion into din.
Ok, this is my opinion, tastes are tastes, EL&P lovers please dont shoot on the piano man, pardon, on the writer!
PS It has happened also in the history of classical music: hardly a great virtuoso was also a great composer, because he tends to slobber, to exceed in virtuosity rather than in composition.
Actually very broadly speaking I agree with an awful lot of that and I am a fan! ELP were far from perfect and in my opinion they never tried to be. Emerson was very into 'ideas' and tried not only be inventive but also re-inventive. Apparently (and this was once explained to an audience by the keyboard player in one of the tribute bands) he would break from convention quite deliberately in how he wrote music.
The Brain Salad Surgery album was a breaking point for many. Emerson and Palmer were challenging each other and it does feel like a race at times. That said it still seems very unique that they did this as I don't remember many bands approaching music this way. It was very personality driven progressive rock but much more emphasis on the 'rock'. Perhaps they transcended the genre to an extent because they could pitch up their tent with the likes of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. Can you really imagine Gentle Giant or VDDG headlining a massive festival like The California Jam? I'm not convinced though that this really satisfied Keith Emerson. Works was really what he wanted to do. Have you heard his Piano Concerto? I would be very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.
That's very interesting what you say about BSS; I felt that was very much the case with that album and although it has some potentially stunning ideas on it, the combination of this intense inter-band race to out-do each other combined with the (in my view, anyway) awful production sound (I think they were trying for a Sci-fi futuristic sound but it just sounds overly top end, cluttered and verging on distorted to my ears) it just gives me a headache.. perhaps that's what turns me off ELP, the (maybe perceived rather than real) 'personality' and 'competitive' driven nature of how their music became and they just seemed a bit too smug...
Go off and do something else. Trying to convince yourself that you like something is a waste of time. ELP has loads of classical influences. Spend a few minutes on YouTube and form your own opinion. It'll take less time than other people spend on a thread replying to you, coincidentally wasting their time as well.
I waste my time as I please
ELP is not a band that I have dismissed. I like their first album. And I like to read what others have to say about it. People who can give me a better further introduction than Youtube. And this is a discussion forum, so having a discussion is not wasting time right? People could easily choose not to reply.
Someone earlier in the thread said "Life’s too short. Why not listen to things you like instead?". And of course that's true. But I think part of being a fan of an adventurous genre like prog rock is sometimes putting some effort into exploring music and trying to "get it". And reading reviews and having discussions can further give some understanding and depth to the music. Otherwise we could all just put up some pop music and just "consume" music.
I like their first album, and that's the only one I kept. The other albums I've heard in the past were too much trying to mix in classical influences for my taste. I like it when bands use techniques derived from classical music, but I don't like it when rock bands try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces. To me it's like orchestras playing pop/rock music. It's gimmicky.
But with all the praise I see you guys give ELP, I'm thinking I should give them another try. But what album?
I dont love ELP. I am not a fan, but I listen to their firsts 4 albums 4-5 times a year.
My personal opinion?
Nice (Ars Longa) and EL&P were very very important for the history of prog, especially for symphonic prog, so for my knowledge was important to listen to them.
I is a good album, the most accesible, and maybe the best. The beginning, the firsts two songs are beautiful,
but the rest ... not so much.
Tarkus is a good album, includes their best elaborate suite (but the side with conventional songs is modest).
Pictures is their worse album, embarassing.
Trilogy isn't bad, but it's modest.
Brain Salad is a good albu. May you like it? ... oh well ... it depends ... it contains their mastodontic suite Karn Evil 9: a great effort but... Is it a masterpiece? No, in my opinion, no. For 12 minutes it is very forced, almost irritating.
Maybe you can like Tarkus (the suite) or Brain Salad (The songs or the Suite)...
In short: in my opinion EL&P have not published any real masterpiece bu their contribution to symphonic prog was relevant and every albums (and suite) contains some genial passages or some beautiful songs. Greg Lake is a wonderful singer and every time it's a pleasure listen to his voice. Their problem was not try to actually sound classical or downright play classical pieces, because most of the time they did a good work with single songs (not in Pictures), their problems were two:
1) They were not great composers in terms of melody (Greg Lake was the best)
2) They exagerate with virtuosistic passages all together, especially Emerson and Palmer: in this way
they produced a lot of smoke but little roast, they distract the listener to the theme of the music and transform most emotion into din.
Ok, this is my opinion, tastes are tastes, EL&P lovers please dont shoot on the piano man, pardon, on the writer!
PS It has happened also in the history of classical music: hardly a great virtuoso was also a great composer, because he tends to slobber, to exceed in virtuosity rather than in composition.
Actually very broadly speaking I agree with an awful lot of that and I am a fan! ELP were far from perfect and in my opinion they never tried to be. Emerson was very into 'ideas' and tried not only be inventive but also re-inventive. Apparently (and this was once explained to an audience by the keyboard player in one of the tribute bands) he would break from convention quite deliberately in how he wrote music.
The Brain Salad Surgery album was a breaking point for many. Emerson and Palmer were challenging each other and it does feel like a race at times. That said it still seems very unique that they did this as I don't remember many bands approaching music this way. It was very personality driven progressive rock but much more emphasis on the 'rock'. Perhaps they transcended the genre to an extent because they could pitch up their tent with the likes of Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. Can you really imagine Gentle Giant or VDDG headlining a massive festival like The California Jam? I'm not convinced though that this really satisfied Keith Emerson. Works was really what he wanted to do. Have you heard his Piano Concerto? I would be very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks.
Go off and do something else. Trying to convince yourself that you like something is a waste of time. ELP has loads of classical influences. Spend a few minutes on YouTube and form your own opinion. It'll take less time than other people spend on a thread replying to you, coincidentally wasting their time as well.
Whatever. You were wrong, per the artist himself. Pontificating in error is never a good look. Droning on and amplifying the fallacy is worse.
Hi,
Right ... considering how many nice things I have said about Keith and his music, your comment is not really that good ... makes me wonder who is pontificating who, unless your religion thinks that mine is not worthy of discussion because yours is superior.
AND I, only have some objections to some American audiences, not all of them ... had no issues in the early days, whatsoever, but seeing Babe Ruth get boo'd because everyone wanted to see Iggy ... at the Whiskey A Go Go ... way back when, is not only bad, it is ridiculous ... if it was your band you wouldn't like it either!
Get real ... your just being a shade of dark that is imaginary inventing causes so you have something to say ... maybe next time you can say something worthy of attention instead of comments that show you did not even READ the whole thing!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
^ Thus spake the Immersible Bladder of Anti-American Bloviating. Your opinion, naturally, is unfounded and based on you huffing psychedelic paint swatches in the 60s. There has never been any indication, ever, that ELP wrote their humorous songs for the audience, least of all for an American audience. I would suggest "Benny the Bouncer" had nothing whatsoever to do with American listeners. As a matter of fact, Keith Emerson disagrees with everything you just vomited up:
"We liked to get the serious stuff out of the way and then do something fun," Emerson says. "We had done Are You Ready Eddy? and The Sheriff before. It was always a nice little breather to soften the mood, both in the studio and on record...."
“....It’s a sort of shock value, this song, a nice release. You don’t want to telegraph each thing as you move along your way. Benny The Bouncer is lighthearted and it moves into the more serous piece."
So, per Emerson, their humorous songs were just a bit of blowing off steam and having fun, not meant as a marketing ploy for bored Americans as you so vacuously implied. Unfortunately, Lake's lyricism is hit and miss, with far more misses than connections. Ofttimes, Lake is just not funny, and this was magnified by the fact that it seems he thought himself a comedic genius.
Hi,
Cleaned it up so your flatulence will not stink up the thread ... it was not meant to sound as bad as you made it, and I certainly was not going around Keith's words. But these "fun bits" had a lot more effect on their music, than just a bit of fun. For many, it took the serious stuff away, like it did for many folks in the thread here.
Shove that asinine "Hi" up your rear. It is meaningless, it is fake, and it certainly isn't ever meant in a friendly sense. It's just a passive-aggressive exordium for yet another descent into Mosh's perambulating pile of patchouli pablum. And speaking of nonsense....
I suppose I should have quoted you directly, given you just edited out most of your usual demeaning excesses and insults. But certainly, edit out everything that shows you are a cretin, particularly when you incorrectly stated that ELP's humorous attempts at songs were written for American audiences, who, as you like to point out ad nauseam, are incapable of understanding art on the divine level you have reached.
Whatever. You were wrong, per the artist himself. Pontificating in error is never a good look. Droning on and amplifying the fallacy is worse.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
^ Thus spake the Immersible Bladder of Anti-American Bloviating. Your opinion, naturally, is unfounded and based on you huffing psychedelic paint swatches in the 60s. There has never been any indication, ever, that ELP wrote their humorous songs for the audience, least of all for an American audience. I would suggest "Benny the Bouncer" had nothing whatsoever to do with American listeners. As a matter of fact, Keith Emerson disagrees with everything you just vomited up:
"We liked to get the serious stuff out of the way and then do something fun," Emerson says. "We had done Are You Ready Eddy? and The Sheriff before. It was always a nice little breather to soften the mood, both in the studio and on record...."
“....It’s a sort of shock value, this song, a nice release. You don’t want to telegraph each thing as you move along your way. Benny The Bouncer is lighthearted and it moves into the more serous piece."
So, per Emerson, their humorous songs were just a bit of blowing off steam and having fun, not meant as a marketing ploy for bored Americans as you so vacuously implied. Unfortunately, Lake's lyricism is hit and miss, with far more misses than connections. Ofttimes, Lake is just not funny, and this was magnified by the fact that it seems he thought himself a comedic genius.
Hi,
Cleaned it up so your flatulence will not stink up the thread ... it was not meant to sound as bad as you made it, and I certainly was not going around Keith's words. But these "fun bits" had a lot more effect on their music, than just a bit of fun. For many, it took the serious stuff away, like it did for many folks in the thread here.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
^ Thus spake the Immersible Bladder of Anti-American Bloviating. Your opinion, naturally, is unfounded and based on you huffing psychedelic paint swatches in the 60s. There has never been any indication, ever, that ELP wrote their humorous songs for the audience, least of all for an American audience. I would suggest "Benny the Bouncer" had nothing whatsoever to do with American listeners. As a matter of fact, Keith Emerson disagrees with everything you just vomited up:
"We liked to get the serious stuff out of the way and then do something fun," Emerson says. "We had done Are You Ready Eddy? and The Sheriff before. It was always a nice little breather to soften the mood, both in the studio and on record...."
“....It’s a sort of shock value, this song, a nice release. You don’t want to telegraph each thing as you move along your way. Benny The Bouncer is lighthearted and it moves into the more serous piece."
So, per Emerson, their humorous songs were just a bit of blowing off steam and having fun, not meant as a marketing ploy for bored Americans as you so vacuously implied. Unfortunately, Lake's lyricism is hit and miss, with far more misses than connections. Ofttimes, Lake is just not funny, and this was magnified by the fact that it seems he thought himself a comedic genius.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
I just finished listening to Tarkus. The title track is pretty epic. It maybe needs a few more listens to fully appreciate it. But I did enjoy it. Nothing of the gimmicky stuff I expected.
Then side two. Jeremy Bender. What and why? Luckily after this short silly song the albums picks up pace again with Bitches Crystal. I could've done without The Only Way. The pipe organ is such a majestic instrument, but this song is pretty lame. Then Infinite Space is a very nice track. Then another alright song. And the album ends with another song that is pretty silly, but also kind of fun. Side two is pretty patchy and it's too bad they didn't maintain the grandiose of the first side.
Hi,
The American Way usually means you have to have a bit of fun and show it ... and every album (well actually not all of them!) have a fun song, and it begs the question ... what's the point? My thoughts are that these were probably more for fun!
One last suggestion and I won't say any more ... IF YOU EVER think that something is "gimmicky", UNPLUG IT ... and you will know right away how serious it is ... and this is where in my mind someone like RW fails in the early days ... it's riff on riff on riff on riff, and how do they relate musically? Most don't if you scribble it out on a staff and paper! You can take a "Take a Pebble", "Tarkus", "Karn Evil" and a whole bunch of other pieces and "unplug them, and guess what ... you still have a massively great piece of music!
But a little fun, here and there, is fine ... doesn't mean they are any less great musicians, but for the audiences in America and England, I like to say they have not handled a "serious concert" by a rock band since the days they were too stoned to know any better, or worse, any different!
In the end, if you study and read Keith's works, the lack of appreciation for a lot of his "classical" music is what did him in ... he wants to show you some serious music and what do the fans do? ... this was also, btw, the biggest complaint Frank Zappa had about audiences and fans!
If I may suggest, you might really consider studying and listening to Keith's material that has been orchestrated and played live with an orchestra ... the whole thing is very different than what ELP did, but its main drive and force is still there.
Edited by moshkito - April 18 2020 at 20:35
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Really...the first one is all you really need...imho they never topped that one even with the much praised Tarkus track.
This is my feeling too. I loved The Nice and the first ELP album. Bits of Tarkus and Trilogy are very good. I'm afraid I just cant stand Greg Lakes voice or his gooey ballads- I once saw Jim Davidson (the supposed comedian from the 70s) doing a version of 'Watching over you' on some awful tv show (shame there isn't an Emoji for vomiting) and that was the last straw.. but I am a big Keith Emerson fan!
On the subject of Greg Lake ballads I would only maybe put Still You Turn Me On into the 'gooey' category from ELP's classic period. From The Beginning is actually a very beautiful song and not really about 'love' but more about introspection and accepting our weaknesses. The mini-moog solo on that song is also wonderful (one of Emo's best)
Yep the Works period did see Lake 'let out of his cage' a bit in tandem with Pete Sinfield (who actually wrote the lyrics so it's really his fault) That aside from the afore mentioned Watching Over You which was about his then baby daughter Natasha . He wrote the song as a lullaby and actually I find it rather sweet , so shoot me if you must!
Actually, I agree with you 'From the beginning' is a rather nice song and the Moog solo is glorious Maybe I was being a bit tough but I just don't find Lakes voice very attractive (to me) and youre right Sinfield did write the lyrics (all be it about a touching personal subject) for watching over you but he also went on to write songs for Bucks Fizz (FFS!) and (possibly? I could be wrong) Dollar! I know we've all got to make a living but... I do have a fondness for 'Still' by Pete Sinfield but otherwise hold him very much at arms length artisically
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Posted: April 20 2020 at 06:23
. I was trying to say that I agree with your reply to Davesax1965. Its up to the individual replying (or considering replying) to decide if its a good use of their time and bad manners to accuse you of wasting their time. Was that any clearer? if not, sorry again
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Tendiwa wrote:
(shame there isn't an Emoji for vomiting) and that was the last straw.. but I am a big Keith Emerson fan!