Russian chemical attack on UK

The Dark Elf wrote: BaldJean wrote: a nice way to discuss history: making wild claims like Putin=Hitler and when asked to back them up get miffed and end the discussion. well, I certainly don't need to argue on this level. so goodnight, Steve I don't think a comparative analysis of Putin = Hitler is unfounded or so far off base as to get your professor's underwear in a bind. They share much the same agenda: nationalism, jingosim, antisemitism, enriching an oligarchic set of insiders, annexing regions of other countries through dubious methods, assassinating enemies of their regimes, imprisoning protesters, rigging national elections, banning certain religions. The two may not be kissing cousins ideologically, but they share many of the same modus operandi, don't you think?

these are all traits of dictators anywhere, with minor qualifications like antisemitism replaced by anti-any-other-ethnic-group and banning certain religions replaced with banning certain belief systems. I certainly see Putin as a dictator.

but Hitler is responsible for one of the biggest genocides ever, and that's certainly what most people immediately associate with his name. and that's why I won't throw the two together in the same group


Edited by BaldJean - April 09 2018 at 17:44

a nice way to discuss history: making wild claims like Putin=Hitler and when asked to back them up get miffed and end the discussion. well, I certainly don't need to argue on this level. so goodnight, Steve

what kind of evasive tactics is this? I asked you to list the character traits you claim Hitler and Putin share so I can either agree or disagree about them, and instead you come up with a parlor game and give me a list of historical figures to pick the odd one out from and claim that this way we are back to the topic? you still sound like a court jester to me

SteveG wrote: I like that Vomps! There is intelligent life on planet prog after all! Or at least very deep thinking.

What was your original point with this comparison anyways? That they were equally evil? Sure, I guess if everyone would put up their own scales of overall evilness, combining all the facts they now about Hitler and Stalin they would both come out on a lonely level where they're closer to eachother than to the average leader. But that's not really a comparison, just a rather random semi-fact.

I like that Vomps! There is intelligent life on planet prog after all! Or at least very deep thinking. 

Edited by SteveG - April 09 2018 at 11:59

A question to my learned colleges regarding the comparison of dictators. Would you learn more about something or someone that is not related?  For example, could one learn anything about a dictator by studying the behavior of a nurse or a nun? If so, what? Or would studying the behavior of another dictator be more beneficial?

Edited by SteveG - April 09 2018 at 10:46

Degree in History (BA) Hons, speak Russian, been to Russia, lots of Russian mates. Also worked in Germany. 40 year interest in WW2.

Stalin was not comparable to Hitler. Only insofaras both were dictators. The detail is different in many, many ways. 

Surely her professor meant that it would be superficial and pointless to discuss the similarities between great dictators since the similarities are superficial and the innumerable details around them don't form any more coherent image of the how and why of the possible failures of dictatorships. It doesn't matter if it's implied that Stalin's sh*t is more justified than Hitler's, just that you don't learn any more about dictators in general by simply cherry-picking the details that they had in common. That's also a big problem in any comparison between Trump and Hitler, for example.

SteveG wrote: ^ I didn't miss the point, I said that I disagree with him. Its my position that people cannot be copies of one another so making comparisons only goes so far. Hitler is not a carbon copy of Stalin or vise versa. But they do have overwhelming traits and characteristics that allows us to place them together into various categories that few others can fill.

Maybe, her professor had a political preference. I'm making terrible assumptions of course, but I have heard leftists making excuses for Stalin's atrocities, and righties making excuses for Hitler, ranging from he "didn't know what he was doing" to holocuast denial.

Its true that economic and social conidtions and overall context make drawing exact comparisons between these characters impossible, but I agree with you, if two dictators are responsbile for killing millions of their own people, then they have that in common, and it is a valid comparison because ultimately it comes down to genocide in the quest for total control. Whether there is a swastika or a hammer & sickle flapping around in the background is, broadly speaking, irrelevent.

BaldJean wrote: SteveG wrote: I very much doubt I'd be impressed with the chap, regardless of what he thought or said. Especially if he didn't have an original comeback. he.. he.. I can hear micky laughing. you judge him without knowing anything of him. if this is your basis of judging people I am not surprised you put figures like Stalin, Hitler and Putin into one category (micky): he...he...