Second tier bands

siLLy puPPy wrote: What is your definition of a "second tier" band? PFM was one of Italy's most successful bands ever. Second tier? I think not

Well, I think at least their time they just achieved mostly national success (yes I know they have a little popularity in UK). In the eighties I really haven´t got any clue of italoprog.

BaldJean wrote: I must admit I never understood the popularity of King Crimson. the only explanation I have is that it is based on the myths that they invented prog rock and that ITCOTCK is the first prog album, neither of which is true. the fact alone that most people skip "Moonchild" makes me wonder why their first album is so highly rated, considering that "I Talk to the Wind" is a full-fledged pop song (albeit an excellent one). the music of KC is, contrary to the music of ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Yes and Jethro Tull, in general not mainstream enough to explain this popularity

King Crimson become very popular already in the seventies. ITCOTCK was fifth in the UK charts in 1969-70. Prog music just become popular that time (which I think would never happened these days) and there were bands like Crimson, Yes, Moody Blues, Genesis, Pink Floyd, ELP, Camel, Jethro that have huge album sales that time. Then there were of course a lots of prog bands that didn´t become ever as popular, although they were as great as those others. I don´t think we can ever truly understand why others become popular and others not. But my opinion is those I mentioned all deserved their popularity (my personal opinion is that ELP deserved it least). I think also popularity of that time has carried all those to this time proglisteners too. Although Crimson is mostly different than for example Moody Blues, there are also similarities, for example mellotron use in those great melodic ballads. As you already said, to me it´s easy to understand why people of the seventies liked so much "I Talk to the Wind", "Epitaph", "In the Court...", "Cadence and Cascade" & "In the Wake Of Poseidon".

Logan wrote: YESESIS wrote: [URL=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7214" rel="nofollow][/URL] http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7214 Edit: And absolutely I love Yes! Possibly my favorite prog band.  But does it bother you that Yes band members worked with King Crimson? For some more on the name from https://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/Metaphysical.html: "The name was suggested by the band's songwriter, Peter Sinfield - "The name King Crimson was mine - I wanted something like Led Zeppelin, something with a bit of power to it. Anything better than Giles, Giles, and Fripp. King Crimson had arrogance to it." The guitarist Robert Fripp is quoted in a booklet accompanying the Essential King Crimson box set, "The name King Crimson is a synonym for Beelzebub, which is an anglicized form of the Arabic phrase B'il Sabab. This means literally the man with an aim and is the recognizable quality of King Crimson." Beelzebub was a Philistine God who later became associated with the Devil. I didn't know Fripp was a Christian, I knew he was spiritual and explored religion, but I associated him with Buddhism. Some talk on King Crimson at a Christian forum: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/king-crimson.6298425/ Anyway, lyricist Sinfield (who also worked with ELP) was "to blame' for the name. Incidentally, Peter Gabriel has cited Robert Fripp as an influence. And Robert Fripp produced Peter Gabriel's second album.

YESESIS wrote: [URL=http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7214" rel="nofollow][/URL] http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7214 Edit: And absolutely I love Yes! Possibly my favorite prog band.

But does it bother you that Yes band members worked with King Crimson?

For some more on the name from https://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/Metaphysical.html:

"The name was suggested by the band's songwriter, Peter Sinfield -

"The name King Crimson was mine -
I wanted something like Led Zeppelin, something with a bit of power to it.
Anything better than Giles, Giles, and Fripp.
King Crimson had arrogance to it."

The guitarist Robert Fripp is quoted in a booklet accompanying the Essential King Crimson box set,

"The name King Crimson is a synonym for Beelzebub,
which is an anglicized form of the Arabic phrase B'il Sabab.
This means literally the man with an aim and is the recognizable quality of King Crimson."

Beelzebub was a Philistine God who later became associated with the Devil.

I didn't know Fripp was a Christian, I knew he was spiritual and explored religion, but I associated him with Buddhism.

Some talk on King Crimson at a Christian forum:
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/king-crimson.6298425/

Anyway, lyricist Sinfield (who also worked with ELP) was "to blame' for the name. Incidentally, Peter Gabriel has cited Robert Fripp as an influence. And Robert Fripp produced Peter Gabriel's second album.



Edited by Logan - January 22 2018 at 20:17

Edited by YESESIS - January 22 2018 at 19:59

YESESIS wrote: Logan wrote: YESESIS wrote: BaldJean wrote: I must admit I never understood the popularity of King Crimson. the only explanation I have is that it is based on the myths that they invented prog rock and that ITCOTCK is the first prog album, neither of which is true. the fact alone that most people skip "Moonchild" makes me wonder why their first album is so highly rated, considering that "I Talk to the Wind" is a full-fledged pop song (albeit an excellent one). the music of KC is, contrary to the music of ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Yes and Jethro Tull, in general not mainstream enough to explain this popularity I don't get it either. I don't like them myself.  Not even this just a little bit? Sorry friend but I'm a Christian, and so when I found out what their name means I was done with them. I know you're rolling your eyes right now lol. But it is what it is.

Oh, so its just based on the band name, not the music. Can you still enjoy Yes knowing that Bill Bruford was drummer on King Crimson albums and knowing that Jon Anderson sung on that track? It's kind of like selling one's soul to the devil. And of course, other musicians from prog bands such as ELP with Greg Lake worked with KC.

Regarding the name:

wikipedia wrote: The band's name was coined by Sinfield, though it is not meant to be a synonym for Beelzebub, prince of demons.[14] (According to Fripp, Beelzebub would be an anglicised form of the Arabic phrase "B'il Sabab", meaning "the man with an aim".[15]) Historically and etymologically, a "crimson king" was any monarch during whose reign there was civil unrest and copious bloodshed....

Edited by Logan - January 22 2018 at 19:54

Logan wrote: YESESIS wrote: BaldJean wrote: I must admit I never understood the popularity of King Crimson. the only explanation I have is that it is based on the myths that they invented prog rock and that ITCOTCK is the first prog album, neither of which is true. the fact alone that most people skip "Moonchild" makes me wonder why their first album is so highly rated, considering that "I Talk to the Wind" is a full-fledged pop song (albeit an excellent one). the music of KC is, contrary to the music of ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Yes and Jethro Tull, in general not mainstream enough to explain this popularity I don't get it either. I don't like them myself.  Not even this just a little bit?

Ok, folks. Here it goes. Why were Renaissance and PFM included? You guys don't consider them to be second tier. Ok, fine. Everyone has their own interpretation of things. Why are Focus on here? They had one of the biggest prog hits with "hocus pocus." Also, why didn't I include Gentle Giant, Camel or VDGG aren't they considered second tier also? Yes, but in my mind those bands are a bit ahead of most of the others IN MY OPINION. Based on my years of research in prog the first tier bands are the most popular and over all most respected(yes some of these bands are just as good at times but just over all weren't or aren't quite as well known). Typically the first tier is King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, ELP, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and maybe Rush and the Moody Blues and maybe one or two others. This is not a science it's based on what I have come to understand who the biggest prog bands are. Also, being that I live in the US my opinion will reflect that. Again do you I really have to go on about how this poll represents my opinion? Everyone has their own interpretation and opinion of things. OK? 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 22 2018 at 17:26

every one of these bands has at least one album that I love