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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:08
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Of the classic ELP albums (those first 5) Trilogy is the worst
Well now you're just being nasty ! Angry

LOL

Tarkus and Trilogy are my favorite ELP albums. is that a hot take? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:07
If you want another hot take: regardless of the viability and effectiveness of a "big 6" or whatever, Rush don't belong anywhere near a top 10 list of great prog bands (unless you're judging popularity). Without Rush, there would be no Dream Theater, Tool, Transatlantic, Spocks B, Pain of S, and all the like.

Also...
contemporary prog (your Opeths, Flower Kings, Wobblers, and Steven Wilsons) is no renaissance! Sorry folks...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:07
I'll give y'all a hot take:(function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'82d643228a767d4e',t:'MTcwMTIxMjc5NS4zODQwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">

David Gilmour's self-titled is the best solo album from a Floyd alum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:06
Stopping with Heavy Horses means you miss out on Stormwatch, A and The Broadsword and the BeastConfused(function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'82d641851e0b29f6',t:'MTcwMTIxMjcyOS4yNTEwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:05
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

No Genesis albums are needed after Lamb.
No Yes albums are needed after Drama
Jethro Tull did only 6 great albums (Aqualung, TAAB, APP, Minstrel, SFTW, HH)
Hawkwind's, King Crimson's & Henry Cow's best albums are all live albums.


I agree with you on Tull completely.
Yes albums after drama are GOOD, some really good, but not really essential listening for a new prog fan. (Except for maybe 90125, it'd make a good entry point into the genre)
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 16:04
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Of the classic ELP albums (those first 5) Trilogy is the worst
Well now you're just being nasty ! Angry
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zappastolethetowels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:52
Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

 
Let's not start with this Big this and big that, it does not help anyone with anything. 


Cristi, The thread was about Hot Takes. Not one thing was said "except for not to be included." That's my hot take. Don't care what you think should be posted in a thread.


I wasn't tell you what to post and what not to, just that a big 6 conversation on this thread is not a good idea (not a good idea in general if you ask me, but anyway...). 


It's a thread about "Hot Takes." In general a thread on such a subject might not be a good idea. One member called Rush "trite" and "uninspired" when they attempted to play Prog. That's a take that could get the hackles up on big Rush fan. I disagree with the take as I think Rush's best stuff was when they went all out Prog. So be it. That's his take.

I could have said Neil Peart is overrated as a drummer, David Gilmour is not much more than an average guitarist who gets rated highly because he has a decent melodic sense and good tone and that any rock guitarist who is said to be the greatest would purely on technical ability get dusted by a third year classical guitar student at say Juliard or Peabody.
I think Logan summarized the intent of such a thread up top to a valid degree. Based on your responses to Cristi, you appear to dislike the topic only when somebody starts to dust your band. I don't care if Rush hackles go over, under, sideways, or down because I stand by my opinion that Rush (up to Caress or FBN, whatever it was) did trite and uninspired 'prog'. What many consider their "classic period" sounds nothing different to me than what was to become prog metal (by numbers). Someone mentioned earlier I exaggerated the sameness of latter day metal, and that's prob true, but I left that genre after hearing enough of those same records in the first place LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:43
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Not sure how unpopular this is, but Heavy Horses > Songs from the Wood

I agree. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:40
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Just because they use vintage instruments doesn't mean Wobbler is that amazing (they're alright).
(function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'82d61bf74c573215',t:'MTcwMTIxMTE5MS4wNDMwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">

I'm glad somebody else thinks this, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:38
Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

Not sure how unpopular this is, but Heavy Horses > Songs from the Wood
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I love SFTW (my favorite Tull album), Heavy Horses and Stormwatch, but I disagree HH is better than Songs. Still, all three are essential. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:34
Originally posted by AJ Junior AJ Junior wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

'The Final Cut is a better album than 'The Wall'.

I think just the song "Comfortably Numb" is better than the whole Final Cut album.
The Wall 1 is better than TFC.
Hey You is also better than anything on TFC. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:32
Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

 Also, I will take Kansas City BBQ over a French croissant any day of the week.
Hell yeah! Jack Stack, Joe's, Q39, or Gates?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:31
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

'The Final Cut is a better album than 'The Wall'.

I think just the song "Comfortably Numb" is better than the whole Final Cut album.
"Together We Stand, Divided We Fall"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 15:26
My top hot takes:
  • Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway," Is the greatest piece of music ever released (and as a response to previous conversation in this thread, "It" is an outstanding closer)
  • Italian Prog (after English Prog) is by far the best country of Prog rock
  • Every Yes album after "90125" is trash
  • Late Genesis all the way up until "We Can't Dance" was awesome especially "Duke" and "Abacab"
  • Supertramp, Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, and Steely Dan are criminally underrated as PROG BANDS (not in generally)
"Together We Stand, Divided We Fall"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:44
Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

 
Cristi,

By that criteria, posting that Rush, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Kansas, Tool, Porcupine Tree or Radiohead is not Prog, or Crime of the Century is not a Prog album or Steve Howe is the best Prog guitarist and Bill Bruford the best drummer or Trick of the Tail is Genesis best album, etc is not helpful. In fact, fair bit of the discussions here are based on such subjects. In fact, if those subjects and lists of top whatever did not exist here, there would not be much traffic.

This thread on "Hot Takes" strictly by your criteria is not helpful.

I don't have a criteria Confused, all I said was that Big 6 discussion are not helpful. 
I disagree with quite a few statements in this thread. But we all enjoy different things after all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:39
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

These hot takes are about personal, unconventional opinion, I don't find that there is much of global or generally inherent, intrinsic value here. It's fun to see our differences and discuss those.

I accept what is commonly termed as the big five, (that being Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd) from the classic 70s years. I would think of the big six as that plus Jethro Tull, and then VdGG and Gentle Giant. Then maybe PFM and Magma (not Can only because I consider it a different beast).

So here is my take that is magma hot, and also kool as Kreühn Köhrmahn: I would rather see Magma in a top list than Kansas. Kansas has sold more, but Magma is the progenitor of an accepted subgenre of Prog, Zeuhl. And Magma, and Zeuhl generally, is considered by the cool progressive rock cognoscenti and hepcats of different stripes to be totes hundin! But don't take just my wurdah for it.

And let's face it, France just come out with stuff that is hipper than Kansas (give me a Parisian buttery croissant over a Topeka tart any day). And Kobaia seems a way more interesting place than Kansas.


Logan,

Your sentences in the first paragraph are spot on. There is no intrinsic value to be found in such a thread but, it is interesting to see individual unconventional takes.

As for Magma. I didn't know they were hip and cool. In fact, I don't think hip or cool applies to Prog. Also, I will take Kansas City BBQ over a French croissant any day of the week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:19
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Big Sky Big Sky wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

 
You tell me how the big 6 of prog is an important helpful concept/idea, how is it helping listeners of prog, and I'll admit I am in the wrong here. 

Cristi,

I don't CARE whether you think the big 6 is an important or helpful concept idea. Really, I don't. And I could care less if you admit you are wrong or not. Frankly, I was not looking for you to say you are in the wrong.

But, to play along, it might be just a guide for those not up on progressive rock as a starting place. Going with a band they may have heard of instead of "hey check out Gentle Giant, Happy the Man or National Health" who, unless you are a big Prog fan, couldn't be picked out of a lineup if you had an arrow pointing at them. Instead "hey, who are some prog bands I should check out"? "Let's start with with some of the big boys. Have you heard of Kansas, Rush or Yes"? Nothing more than that.

Since I brought up classical guitar in my prior post, there is a big three of classical guitar: Andres Segovia, Julian Bream and John Williams. If someone asked where to start, it probably would be with one of these three playing a popular piece from Bach, Tarrega or Barrios. Of course, Ana Vidovic, David Russell or Sharon Isbin would be good choices too.


People cannot even make up their mind or  agree who is in this big 6 (it was big 5 at some point) and they argue same way metalheads argue about the big 4 of thrash. At least, the big 4 of thrash was established by the media and people complain how Anthrax especially does not belong there. 
And then someone will start will try and come up with a big 4 for every genre. I don't think it helps in any way. That's all. 



Cristi,

By that criteria, posting that Rush, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Kansas, Tool, Porcupine Tree or Radiohead is not Prog, or Crime of the Century is not a Prog album or Steve Howe is the best Prog guitarist and Bill Bruford the best drummer or Trick of the Tail is Genesis best album, etc is not helpful. In fact, fair bit of the discussions here are based on such subjects. In fact, if those subjects and lists of top whatever did not exist here, there would not be much traffic.

This thread on "Hot Takes" strictly by your criteria is not helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:15
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

And let's face it, France just come out with stuff that is hipper than Kansas (give me a Parisian buttery croissant over a Topeka tart any day). And Kobaia seems a way more interesting place than Kansas.
This is a snarky offensive reply for me, Greg. Shame on you! I live in Kansas and you're wrong. I'll show you around when you get here.

What French band is hipper than Kansas?

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - November 28 2023 at 18:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 14:14
No Genesis albums are needed after Lamb.
No Yes albums are needed after Drama
Jethro Tull did only 6 great albums (Aqualung, TAAB, APP, Minstrel, SFTW, HH)
Hawkwind's, King Crimson's & Henry Cow's best albums are all live albums.
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2023 at 13:48
These hot takes are about personal, unconventional opinion, I don't find that there is much of global or generally inherent, intrinsic value here. It's fun to see our differences and discuss those.

I accept what is commonly termed as the big five, (that being Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd) from the classic 70s years. I would think of the big six as that plus Jethro Tull, and then VdGG and Gentle Giant. Then maybe PFM and Magma (not Can only because I consider it a different beast).

So here is my take that is magma hot, and also kool as Kreühn Köhrmahn: I would rather see Magma in a top list than Kansas. Kansas has sold more, but Magma is the progenitor of an accepted subgenre of Prog, Zeuhl. And Magma, and Zeuhl generally, is considered by the cool progressive rock cognoscenti and hepcats of different stripes to be totes hundin! But don't take just my wurdah for it.

And let's face it, France just come out with stuff that is hipper than Kansas (give me a Parisian buttery croissant over a Topeka tart any day). And Kobaia seems a way more interesting place than Kansas.



Edited by Logan - November 28 2023 at 13:49
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