Do you support universal healthcare?

My absolute favorite thing about this whole scuffle was someone saying out loud that Stephen Hawking would be dead if he lived in Britain.

Edited by Henry Plainview - September 03 2009 at 00:06

akamaisondufromage wrote:   I think it might also have a little to do with diet Raff.  My grandmother was 102 too we managed to hide her from the Panels.  Stuffed her in the cellar whenever they came round

Ah, you may have stuffed grandma in the cellar, but at least you didn't pull the plug on her.  In this country we leave that up to the insurance companies and dagnabbit, we like it that way.

One has to ask oneself, why are the only choices we are given are rationing or rationing?  Rationing by the government or rationing by the health insurance companies.

Personally, since I am not wealthy, take a guess under which of those I would end up better off?
Even with a public option, the wealthy would still have the option of buying into something extra.
What the hell is wrong with having a minimum amount of coverage that takes care of you regardless of your ability to pay?


Edited by Slartibartfast - September 03 2009 at 07:05

And by the baby-chefs!

Negoba wrote: akamaisondufromage wrote: p0mt3 wrote: Negoba wrote: But, but, America is the bestest bestest and everyone else is just jealous and we're toughest and the smartest and the fattest, well, we earned by all that freedom and we're free and you're all a bunch of commies and we don't want to be commies that's what my daddy or at least the TV told me. Unfortunately, that makes up a bulk of American citizens' mindsets right now. And THAT is anything but funny . . . that's scary.   Here's the thing I find confusing.  You have a NEW president who was heralded as a new beginning in some ways.  He's the first black pres as well.  He won an election.  He won it saying he would reform healthcare.  But the first time he tries to do anything - everybody changes their mind (collectively).???       This is actually what is happening. It's just backlash against Obama's victory. The same fools who yelled for Palin are yelling about healthcare now. The intelligent majority is just stepping back and saying "Whoa this is complicated." The only people coming out with a firm opinion, many are racists, or just Republican operatives. But you repeat something enough times and people begin to believe it. Obama is playing way too cautious, which is often the case when you're in the lead in a competition or the incumbent in this case. He should be calling out madness for what it is, calling on America to join the civilized world, to legislate from our best selves instead of our fear.   He's not playing this well at all.

Edited by akamaisondufromage - September 02 2009 at 16:08

And yet many in America still will say things about misfortune being directly related to laziness. Many hint at this, many more say it openly, and it is just madness.

Negoba wrote: But, but, America is the bestest bestest and everyone else is just jealous and we're toughest and the smartest and the fattest, well, we earned by all that freedom and we're free and you're all a bunch of commies and we don't want to be commies that's what my daddy or at least the TV told me.

Oh, yes, I am definitely a commie.... I wonder how they gave me a GC!

Seriously, whenever I see people saying that Obama is a Marxist, or that the US are descending into socialism, I wonder if I am still on Planet Earth. Most Western European countries actually have centre-right governments as to now (France, Germany and Italy do for sure), but no one would ever dream of suggesting the abolition of universal healthcare. As I said, affluent people are free to take up private insurance, use private facilities, and whatever else... I have to admit, I really resent people slinging mud against what they don't have any experience of.

People here should also learn that human beings, even the smartest, most hard-working ones, are highly susceptible to what Shakespeare called 'the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune'. This is a simple fact I have learned over the years, especially after I saw otherwise healthy people sicken and die in the space of a few months.

But, but, America is the bestest bestest and everyone else is just jealous and we're toughest and the smartest and the fattest, well, we earned by all that freedom and we're free and you're all a bunch of commies and we don't want to be commies that's what my daddy or at least the TV told me.

666-666-6666

SentimentalMercenary wrote: Negoba wrote: In our state, the legislation passed laws limiting the ability of lawyers and they were declared unconstituional time after time. Thanks for playing try again.   Lawyers cannot declare something unconstitutionnal. If you know one who can, plz leave me his number.

This has been an issue I struggled with for months. Honestly, I still do struggle with it a bit despite my decision finally being made, more or less.

My Liberal side says absolutely, yes! No question! My Libertarian side however has to take a step back and evaluate it first before jumping in.

See, I'm all for individualism. People being free to do what they want, express whatever they wish, and provide for themselves. At times I worry that we are allowing our Government to have too much power over our more intimate and necessary aspects of our lives. Give 'the man' too much power, and we lose our freedoms, little by little. Many would argue that this is already happening (myself included).

However, then I am forced to wake up and 'smell the roses', as it were, and realize something very important; we live in a society. It would be great if everybody could truly provide for themselves without needing any handouts, but that just isn't how the world works, and certainly not what this society in particular was built on. We benefit from the Government every day, and honestly, we may hate the Government sometimes for things they do I certainly have been known to lash out at our leaders in the past), but when it comes right down to it, without all of the Government-run systems and services out there already, we wouldn't have it as good as we do.

We drive on roads paved by the Government, we drink water that has been purified by the Government, the more wealthy of us have the stock market to thank, and yet we don't want to pay our dues in return? Taxes is what this all comes down to, the way I see it. I don't know how many times I have heard the argument, "Well, why should I have to pay for somebody else's healthcare with my hard-earned money through more taxes?" Hmm, I don't know, maybe because . . . you already do?

Whenever somebody goes into an ER and they don't have any insurance of any kind, where do think the money comes from to help them out? Our tax dollars! Here's the thing: a good percent of our taxes go towards causes such as that anyway. This new concept of universal healthcare (which by the way, happens to be present in some form or another in just about every other Country in the free world except the US) simply makes that tax spending even more efficient. Privately-run insurance companies and doctors pocket more of the tax dollars than actually put it towards the healthcare services themselves. With the plan that Obama is proposing, the companies themselves will have much less of the money going towards the Adminestrative costs, and much more of the money going towards helping the people. I can't really argue with something like that.

We already have government-funded, or 'socialized' services all around us by this point. The library, the armed forces, the emergency services, the publuc schools, a good portion of the mail system, etc. Nobody has complained about that. Are we really going to stand against just one more socialized service that will actually help save lives? I don't know about you, but morally, I cannot be against the concept, regardless of where my political opinions are.