"Democracy is Teetering" - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 09:33

suitkees wrote:

Media literacy is really an urgency. I'm teaching a course now on the history of fake in film and media and it is quite staggering to see the lack of analytical capacity, or just a critical look with our youngsters (and I'm talking about third year Film & Media students here!). There is a lot to do in this domain, but it is already 30 years that academics try to get this into the heads of those who govern us...

[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing most third-year Film & Media students don't take statistics, logic, advanced science, or critical thinking classes. I wish these classes were required. I'm not saying Film college students don't take a biology or chemistry class or two. However, freshmen biology/chemistry/physics will not give you a foundation in Scientific Method. Statistics, logic, and critical thinking are crucial to a deeper understanding of viewing the world around you. Even so, if you don't apply the "lessons learned" to real-life situations, politics, and reality then multiple Science degrees won't help you. A staggering number of Science degree folks don't apply logic or the scientific method. Wink

You can lead a horse to water...

Edited by omphaloskepsis - March 17 2024 at 09:36

Valdez1

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 09:07

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/KDD4ms4FTGpjzpt6/?mibextid=wnNJl9

suitkees

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 07:00

^ Very interesting points, amongst which the question of Media literacy. I stumbled upon a book review of Barbara McQuade's Attack From Within - How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America in which she is apparently also proposing some solutions (for the more or less specific US context):

McQuade offers solutions for countering disinformation and maintaining the rule of law, such as making domestic terrorism a federal crime, reviving local journalism, criminalising doxxing (the act of revealing identifying information about someone online) and considering a ban on online anonymous accounts.

The former US attorney for the eastern district of Michigan urges politicians to get ahead of the curve of artificial intelligence. “I hope that our Congress can do something which we failed to do with social media, which is get ahead of it, because if it can put things in place before they create havoc, it’s much easier than trying to react after the fact.”

Individual citizens, she says, can gain skills be critical consumers of social media. “We can educate ourselves and take responsibility by doing things like, when we read an article, don’t rely just on the headline; we should actually read the article before we forward it to someone else.

“We should look for second sources of a story; if there’s an outrageous story, someone else will be reporting it. If there is data in a story, we should look at that data. How big was the sample set? Was it a sample of three or a sample of 3m? That makes a difference. Were the results of this study a causation or just coincidence with an outcome? We need to do that.”

McQuade also calls for increasing media literacy in schools and a revival of teaching civics rather than focusing on test scores.

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

Lewian

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 06:38

What happens has, I think, a lot to do with us discovering more and more that democracy needs some trust, and that there are many reasons to not trust. Before or without democracy the average person only needs to trust the leader to the extent that the leader says "do this" or "do that" and if you do you're fine and otherwise there can be bad consequences. Regarding everything else, particularly statements of "facts", trust is not needed.

If we're however asked to vote, we are asked to put some trust in the candidates, and it is possible to undermine trust in the candidates as a whole. Democracy had a lot of trust after WWII in the first place because the real existing alternatives were so obviously bad and also out there for destroying the democracies. Before WWII let alone WWI, democracy had a hard time to be credible in many places. So after WWII democracies were full of people who would for some "local" reason not trust one candidate or another, but would not question democracy as a system.

One thing that has happened is that WWII is long ago now and few people now living have seen it. Even a new generation hasn't seen communist dictatorship either, at least not anywhere near their own country. But the world after 1990 isn't exactly a nice and peaceful place, and democracy has to take some of the blame (the bad experience of the Yeltsin years for sure plays a big role in many Russians being against the Western system of democracy). So there are more people around now who don't take for granted that democracy is the best system (or be it the least bad though still somewhat bad).

And then "information" is spread very differently these days. There are many more sources of "information", and then also the algorithms will "help" people to create their own "information bubble" by showing them all kinds of things that confirm what they believe already, without much interaction with sources that promote other points of view. True, there has always been misinformation and manipulation, but still, at least within democracies different points of view would mostly clash on the same stages, for all to see. Now "information communities" build up with incompatible views, on each side believing that elsewhere there is only manipulation and stupidity - and of course if there is manipulation and stupidity everywhere, there is no point in having a democracy as whatever you vote for will not make a difference.

What to do about this I don't know. Personally, I still value to see many points of view - seeing arguments from one side and then seeing the best arguments from the other side against it, and I like to try understanding how everyone comes to their points of view and what the positive legitimation of it is. I do not like to look at side A of an argument only in the way that is offered to me from the side B, just to confirm how corrupt and mistaken side A is and how their followers are just gullible sheep. This makes decision and taking sides more difficult, but at least I can still appreciate people who try hard to understand matters and solve them rather than only spreading negativity, even if they get something wrong. This I think is crucial for democracy. We must not only be able to question and criticise, also to appreciate how difficult the problems are and what trouble comes with whatever attempt to deal with them. And hopefully have some trust in at least somebody to honestly try.

suitkees

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 06:32

^ There's an interesting special issue of Mother Jones on those predatory plutocrats:

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

moshkito

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 05:22

suitkees wrote:

That is the headline of a rather thorough report/analysis in today's The Guardian about how extremist Republicans are trying to undermine democratic institutions and elections in Arizona, as just an example of a more widespread practice in the USA nowadays.

...

Hi,

I really don't know, and I think that we're going to know even less. So there was a primary here in WA and only about a third of all the voters bothered showing up or scratching a piece of paper. The disconnect is too much, though the local paper thought that it was because people were "forced" to designate their affiliation to a Democratic or Republican group, and it is believed that a lot of people that did not wish to explain and had more independent feelings, decided to not bother with that determination. Thus the "small" turn out! (less than 33%), But this is something that many unsavory states do to make it look like they are being more with it and looking more attentive than otherwise. Instead, they shoo people away .... just what Dr. T ordered!

It's the scariest of things, though ... and a writer once said that the place that has the most freedoms, is the one that uses them the least! And here it is ... and in some states, it has a 35% of certain folks, but they only get elected like 10% of the time if that ... it's like they don't have a voice at all ... hard to believe these days in America!

I think what bothers me more is the cynicism around it all ... when folks here don't realize that in more than half, maybe even two thirds, you can't even vote for your local representative.

The whole matrix is really scary but I am inclined to believe that the proliferation of the riches in the country to pay less taxes and get richer is one of the biggest problems ... and many of them are going around saying ... let them eat cake and then buy everything so they look like the biggest and richest around ... and in the end, they are no different than ... the show that gave us a really poor example of a boss that only had one redeeming factor ... he could say "you're fired" louder than all of us! AND ... the craziest thing? We thought it was cool!

Edited by moshkito - March 17 2024 at 05:28

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Mirakaze

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 02:42

As a European who's part of a particular demographic that's a popular punching bag for the far right these days my thoughts tend to swing back and forth between "I must do my part in protecting Europe and its liberal democracy" and "f**k these hateful narrow-minded people, they don't deserve to be protected; I should either join my boyfriend in the United States or just go wherever things are relatively safe when the cataclysms start" but most often "everything is meaningless, nowhere is safe, nothing I can do matters, better to just not think about the future at all, have fun for as long as I can and have whatever happens happen to me".

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I prophesy disaster View Drop Down

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 02:15

mathman0806 wrote:

As an American, I feel uneasy about these uncertain times.

I don't think it is just Americans who feel uneasy.

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.

Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: March 17 2024 at 01:09

^ Or fight extremism and criminality where and whenever you can.

You "don't debate politics online with music friends and only note opinions"? Well: You're debating right now, we're not friends, and if you want to make a difference than stand up and take a stand.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Valdez1

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 23:17

For thoughtful commentary (seriously) look to Solzhenitsyn . Especially his later writings. I don’t debate politics online with music friends and only note opinions. Humanity has been hoodwinked since the beginning of time by very powerful and dangerous forces. We accept it as a means of survival. We tell ourselves all is well and it’s just normal. Pick a side… any side. Just be to work on time.

Edited by Valdez1 - March 16 2024 at 23:19

Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 23:03

^ Iggy is the man, it's true -

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Valdez1

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 22:34

I look to Iggy …

Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 21:54

Ah yes, when I want informed and thoughtful commentary I look to Vivek.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Valdez1

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 21:19

All of the left vs. right drama is designed to keep the angry divided frogs in the pot. So the chef can boil us up and not be blamed. I’ve had this opinion for many many years. The Trump vs. Biden thing has been working like a charm. Even Vivek was warning of this.

Valdez1

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 21:09

Eisenhower saw a thing…
He said this is sickening!

Iggy Pop.

siLLy puPPy View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 20:51

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. . . .Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. . . . In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

- Dwight D. Eisenhower, farewell address 1961

"They're heeeeeeere"

- Carol Ann from Poltergeist film, 1982

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Valdez1

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 20:16

How do Soros, Klaus, Gates, The Crown, The Catholic Church, the
WHO ,CIA WEF AIPAC UN the European black nobility,,
The federal reserve and more represent Democracy???

Represent democracy? Both Republican and Democrat
Parties are beholden to these entities that would toss
Democracy and The Rebublic out the window for a
New World Order comprised of cameras, zones, digital
Currency, agenda 2030. It’s all about a central dictatorship..

Out with the old… In with the new .

Any one of these agencies or entities
Have more control over the U.S. than any President

Ask JFK. He knew

mathman0806 View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 19:47

No doubt corruption and greed cross party lines. It makes sense that most people don't go into politics to help others. They go in for the attainment of power and placating their egos.

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 19:08

For the most part, it's a DEM/GOP Uniparty. Both parties are pro-war, avoid the 34 Trillion dollars in national debt, and work with large corporations to control everything. Wink

richardh

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Posted: March 16 2024 at 19:01

Democracy isn't working but then neither has anything else for a long time (or ever). The world is teetering. Wakey wakey time (or not).