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Topic ClosedDonovan: Early Prog or Just Psych?

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Permy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 17:00
What is Mellow Yellow about?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 15:19
^The OP left out obvious Psychedelic songs like Mellow Yellow.
 
(Perhaps they weren't so obvious.) Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 12:17
Yes, of course the Crimson bit is ridiculousness itself.


Better to further the Donovan arguement, the origional poster could have brought up a '66 Donovan B-side PRECEEDING SUNSHINE SUPERMAN  whose title is pretty clear as to the ,then, current (Brit)  practice of spiking "sugarcubes" with LSD.

But ,of course, the question is : does the said track -whose exact title I forget -smack of psychedelicness to the degree of Sunshine Superman?

The answer being...ughhhh...no.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 12:01
Donovan may have been personally related to prog, hanging out and jamming with King Crimson (http://www.elephant-talk.com/articles/fripp-yp.htm), opening for Yes, whatever.  But musically, he doesn't qualify.
 
And King Crimson covering a song of his shouldn't allow him in, either.  Otherwise Yes covers would have qualified Richie Havens, Simon & Whatshisname, and god knows who else.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 11:47
Well it's all down to how you define psych or prog - and as far as I know, the verdict is still out on that. You'll find as many different views on what constitues either of the two styles as there are posters on here........and why wouldn't you? It's music after all.
I will say this though, your definition of psych doesn't sound like any other I've ever come across.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 11:41
People - including myself - do not WANT to be told certain truths.

Do you think I myself want to know that prog came out of bluesrock?
That psych came directly out of garage. That the line between garage and psych is so thin as to be....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 11:30
Now that you mention it, he does remind me of a certain individual tooLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 11:24
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

It is easy to dismiss that which you do not have any intention of understanding.


Silly it is then.  Only it is a silliness shared by many major (vinyl) collector/dealer  heads - names that would mean nothing to you.

I have not yet read Lundborg's (RIP) Psychedelia tome. It is quickly becoming THE main reference on the scene. Given time  Patrick's work   WILL - along with Morton Jack - be the main reference.

I will go out on a limb and suppose his take on true psychedelia was  same as above stated.


Hmmm... you sound exactly like a former poster who made equally inane pronouncements regarding vinyl dealers and their allegedly sacrosanct record bin categorizations.

He was utterly wrong. And history repeats itself, apparently.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 09:55
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

The British are clean out of the equation.
There was no movement for them - no Vietnam for one.

(With exception of foilkmusic and ocassional eccentricities like Comus, there is no darkness for the Brits only Alice In Wonderland, whimsey, garden gnomes....
Yes I agree, there was no UFO club in London featuring freak out groups like Floyd and Fleur De Lys at that time. I must have just imagined it. Thanks for straightening me out. LOL
 
Perhaps you should read up a bit on this. It could prove helpful.


Edited by SteveG - November 22 2014 at 09:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 09:48
The British are clean out of the equation.
There was no movement for them - no Vietnam for one.

(With exception of foilkmusic and ocassional eccentricities like Comus, there is no darkness for the Brits only Alice In Wonderland, whimsey, garden gnomes....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 09:41
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

What a ridiculous thread.

I'm not going to even comment on the prog "aspect".

As to psych, they say UK psych started with Sunshine Superman, but they like to parrot back and forth a lot on the internet. I myself have parrotted this on ocassion.

Truth is NOTHING that came out of the UK is psychedelic music in the truest sense. And if your  automatically thinking America , there was precious little there as well.

Mock psych there is tons, but the real deal, coming mainly out of Texas, was a very slim timeline with mere handfuls of bands.
Interesting  response if you dispose of diplomacy.
Did the Texas bands you mentioned really have a Psychedelic sound with their combination of Garage rock and other worldly electric jug (lol)? Or were these bands that just promoted LSD use and played stoned?
 
This has always been the key question when comparing early American psych with that of the British.
 
Perhaps you should give this question some thought.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 08:48
It is easy to dismiss that which you do not have any intention of understanding.


Silly it is then.  Only it is a silliness shared by many major (vinyl) collector/dealer  heads - names that would mean nothing to you.

I have not yet read Lundborg's (RIP) Psychedelia tome. It is quickly becoming THE main reference on the scene. Given time  Patrick's work   WILL - along with Morton Jack - be the main reference.

I will go out on a limb and suppose his take on true psychedelia was  same as above stated.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 07:26
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:



Truth is NOTHING that came out of the UK is psychedelic music in the truest sense. And if your  automatically thinking America , there was precious little there as well.

Mock psych there is tons, but the real deal, coming mainly out of Texas, was a very slim timeline with mere handfuls of bands.

So, your definition of psych would only include those bands that spoke with a drawl. I realize Bubble Puppy and 13th Floor Elevator came from Texas, but your limited idea of what psych is seems to border on the silly.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2014 at 18:03
What a ridiculous thread.

I'm not going to even comment on the prog "aspect".

As to psych, they say UK psych started with Sunshine Superman, but they like to parrot back and forth a lot on the internet. I myself have parrotted this on ocassion.

Truth is NOTHING that came out of the UK is psychedelic music in the truest sense. And if your  automatically thinking America , there was precious little there as well.

Mock psych there is tons, but the real deal, coming mainly out of Texas, was a very slim timeline with mere handfuls of bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 13:38
I can see where you're coming from. A Gift... does sound like one of those "sit back and relax" albums.
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 13:26
A Gift from a Flower is a good record, but you must take the concept in full in order to enjoy the record.  It was an attempt by Donovan to get back to the acoustic folk of his earliest records, and it was also his first real concept record.  The gift is the songs, the flower is the mother/father and the garden the son/daughter - Donovan basically wrote an album of songs for parents and their kids (something he's done on several occasions, including with HMS Donovan, For the Little Ones and the Pied Piper albums).  It's a double album with the first record having a more "rock" feel, but still very mellow; the second record was largely acoustic and included themes of growth, love, teaching, morality, etc.  I personally love the album but don't put it on as much as Sunshine, Hurdy, Mellow and the late 60s/early 70s albums.  It's just not as dynamic, spacy or groove-oriented as the others. 
 
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2014 at 22:19
The Intergalactic Laxative is kind of a bowel movement prog song , no? LOL
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2014 at 00:40
I have Open Road. That was good. "Rikki Tiki Tavi" was an obvious high point, but "Changes", "Curry Land", "Joe Bean's Theme", "Celtic Rock", "Roots Of Oak", and "New Years Resovolution" were good. A nice change of direction. I don't understand how that wasn't commercially successful. 

I might get HMS Donovan, but only because it seems like the easiest one to find.

BTW, what do you guys think was Donovan's best work? A Gift From A Flower To A Garden is probably it for me, though The Hurdy Gurdy Man, Sunshine Superman, and Barabajagal could also qualify. With the latter, the 2005 version was a real eyeopener - so many cool outtakes and directions. 
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2014 at 07:40
Guinevere?  Prog folk?  Donovan did many numbers that encroach on that sound, but Guinevere? 
 
I've always dug Donovan - he got a bum rap in the 70s as he suddenly became the whipping boy of all that was "hippie" when that scene became passe.  Many overlook his early 70s stuff like Open Road, HMS Donovan, Cosmic Wheels, and - especially - 7-Tease.  All great folk rock albums, but about as prog as the Fairport Convention or Steeleye Span (oh, wait, they're both in PA!)....I guess even Donovan is prog rock.......really? 
 
Maybe we can stretch a prog label over the Roy Harper and Kevin Coyne....I've always thought of PA as more than just a place for people who love music to hang out, it's also a place to discover new bands.....and Harper and Coyne really deserve a listen.
 
 
As do the Grateful Dead, but I've been down that road feeling bad one too many times.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2014 at 21:26

Some good points already raised.  Some of his songs, especially Guinevere, could be considered prog folk.

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