Meat eater, vegetarian or vegan? |
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Author | |||||||||||||||||
Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 20 2014 at 18:42 | ||||||||||||||||
Depends on what you mean by "eating" |
|||||||||||||||||
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|||||||||||||||||
dwill123
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 19 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4460 |
Posted: January 20 2014 at 11:49 | ||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
Posted: January 20 2014 at 02:33 | ||||||||||||||||
You got me-- I should've known
|
|||||||||||||||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 20 2014 at 01:29 | ||||||||||||||||
A falafel mix?!?!?!? David, I'm mortified
Take one tin of chickpeas, open can, place in bowl, attack with potato masher until at desired consistency (smooth or crunchy, like peanut butter), add sautéed chopped onion and crushed garlic and whatever herbs and spices take your fancy. Form into balls then fry. You can use a food processor instead of a masher but it's too easy to go past falafel consistency and into hummus territory. Talking of which, this will make enough for 4 people so if cooking for 2 or less use half the chickpeas to make hummus by adding tahini paste to the chickpeas and garlic with a good slug of olive oil and blitzing them in the food processor until smooth. And you can even make your own tahini paste by placing some sesame seeds in a hot dry pan until you can just start to smell their aroma (you don't want to colour them) - remove from the heat and allow to cool - whizz in a blender with a drizzle of olive oil, keep adding oil until a smooth but slightly sloppy paste is formed, mix in a dash of lemon juice to taste. Edited by Dean - January 20 2014 at 01:42 |
|||||||||||||||||
What?
|
|||||||||||||||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 22:04 | ||||||||||||||||
talk about your hushpuppies
|
|||||||||||||||||
ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 22:01 | ||||||||||||||||
No animals were harmed in the making of this recipe |
|||||||||||||||||
Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 06 2012 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 8856 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:53 | ||||||||||||||||
No carb-free? Gluten-free? Paleo? What-Would-Jesus-Eat?
|
|||||||||||||||||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:46 | ||||||||||||||||
I'm telling you right now; try making your own at home. Get a decent box of falafel mix, add water, shape into pads and fry those puppies up in hot olive oil till golden brown and crunchy on both sides. Shove in a pita with your favorite hummus and some veggies and you won't know why you waited so long. |
|||||||||||||||||
stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:43 | ||||||||||||||||
Omnivore.
I could really give up almost any meats except steak and seafood. Those I'm particularly attached to. I'm not swayed one way or another as far as the morality of it. I don't really care. But for what it's worth, if you can grow me a steak in a lab that tastes good enough, I'll eat it instead of an animal. Edited by stonebeard - January 19 2014 at 21:46 |
|||||||||||||||||
siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15242 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:35 | ||||||||||||||||
VEGEN
vegen (ˈvexə(n)) werkwoord enkelvoud onvoltooid verleden tijd veegde , voltooid deelwoord heeft geveegd 1. schoonmaken door met een bezem of borstel ergens langs te strijken de vloer vegen de schoorsteen vegen je voeten vegen aan de deurmat 2. door ergens langs te strijken verplaatsen of verwijderen de tranen van je wangen vegen van de kaart vegen - totaal vernietigen onder het tapijt vegen - negeren doen alsof (een lastige kwestie) niet bestaat VEGAN n. A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals, as fur or leather. Whoever started this post needs to at least spell it right |
|||||||||||||||||
catfood03
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 24 2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 21:24 | ||||||||||||||||
I had no idea McDonalds offered such a burger. Going veg has kept me away from the fast food burger chains for quite some time, assuming there is nothing for me to go back there for outside of a salad. On a side note, I was speaking with a co-worker from India who told me the McDonalds there were completely meat-free.
Yeah, I think I overdid my argument a bit and can't add anything more without treading the same ground.
I find it noble to want an existence with minimal amount of life taken from other creatures on our planet, but that could be a topic of discussion for another time. I'll need to catch up on the older posts in here to read what has already been said. |
|||||||||||||||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 19 2014 at 05:57 | ||||||||||||||||
A humorous quip no doubt, but not without possibilities - meatless balls would make for an interesting addition to a spaghetti dish, even thought the combination of meat and meatless balls does seem a little superfluous at first glance it is only if you regard the meatless balls as a meat substitute or alternative. Take the ubiquitous falafel, a tasty little morsel that is often used as the staple in vegetarian "spag-bog", often overlooked by omnivores because of its vegetarian association it can be an interesting main component and/or accompaniment in a meal, the versatility of the ingredients cannot be overstated. Having said that, a good falafel can be as hard to find as a good meatball, for many are over-spiced and have far too much garlic for my personal tastes, there are times when I felt that my breath could have stripped wallpaper at twenty paces after eating a pre-prepared falafel. As you mentioned Indian cuisine earlier I do feel they are more "adventurous" in their use of vegetable patties and fritters (dal, bhaji, vadai etc.) both as a main and as an accompaniment to meat-based dishes than how they are used in Western cuisine.
No argument from me, though I would add that a McVeggie burger, fries and tomato sauce does not let the vegetarian "off the hook", we are all capable of making poor choices on our "side" dishes. [Not that there is anything inherently wrong in a McVeggie burger, I actually enjoy them occasionally - I once ordered a McVeggie burger and was told they had none left so would I like a McChicken burger instead...]
I think we've pretty much established that "interesting" is a matter of personal taste, I will concede that since it is subjective any subset of ingredients can be more or less "interesting" depending on how they are prepared and presented. Relativism is a comparative measure against a base-line, in my original comment that base-line was an omnivorous diet, you are measuring against a different base-line so the comparison is meaningless. There is no avoiding the "disgust" factor and I respect those who avoid meat for "ethical" reasons, it is a sound and perfectly reasonable reason to become a vegetarian. There are many animals (and parts thereof) that most omnivores find disgusting to eat, vegetarianism is merely an extrapolation of that, just as veganism an extreme extrapolation of the same. Personally, I find dairy production to be no more (or less) ethical than meat production, but that's just me, I could argue this for hours but that is not my intention here, I have no desire to question peoples' ethical choices. [The discussion between Alex and myself has drifted away from ethical justification into a discussion on philosophy and the roots of morality, I don't believe that "more ethical" means "more moral", I can make more ethical choices in the food I eat, that does not necessarily make those choices more moral.] |
|||||||||||||||||
What?
|
|||||||||||||||||
manofmystery
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 21:03 | ||||||||||||||||
There are a lot of posts in this thread that are way too long to bother reading
|
|||||||||||||||||
Time always wins. |
|||||||||||||||||
catfood03
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 24 2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 20:51 | ||||||||||||||||
True, a meat lover can still add their favorite protein to whatever meal that I could make. If I made spaghetti with vegetarian "meatballs" then I suppose you could always add real meatballs to it to make it more "interesting". I've adopted this dietary lifestyle for 3 years now and I would not be a vegetarian if I did not cook for myself on a regular basis. Vegetarians can make bad choices if they think that all it takes is eating cheese pizzas and frozen veggie-burgers, they are doomed to fail. Some forget the point of vegetarianism is to eat vegetables. Some omnivores, on the other hand, think ketchup and french fries counts as a viable serving of vegetables. I like that I am debating this with someone who shares a passion of cooking as I do. I live to eat too, but because I have eliminated animals from my diet does not make my diet less interesting. Not from my perspective. I've found new dishes that fill that void. The vegetarians who are in it primarily for ethical reasons would not find a meat diet more interesting, just more disgusting. Edited by catfood03 - January 18 2014 at 20:52 |
|||||||||||||||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 13:11 | ||||||||||||||||
You are naive. [you've really got to stop asking me to call you things- if you ask me to call you a cab I will say you are a cab - it's a reflex reaction that I am duty-bound to respond with] If the purpose of the question is to find a persons moral cut-off then it is worse than pointless, it is dishonest, moreover it is flawed. Previously you claimed my answer to this question would explain whether I really do think there is a universal morality or not, (which it doesn't), and now it is to determine my moral cut-off points (and it's not going to determine those either) - that particular experiment was designed to test neither of those things. However, I suspect in these kinds of thought experiment the fault is mine.
I have never claimed that morality has been constant. I would not claim that animals have a formal morality either. I've yet to hear of a genocide that wasn't the result of a philosophical ideology. So I don't follow your line of reasoning here. Nota bene: I've deliberated swapped the order of next two quotes:
To recap: "Philosophy brings up a problem and contemplates it, science is the tool used to answer it" I said that science stopped answering the questions that philosophy brings up during the Renaissance. Once we separated the disciplines of Science and Philosophy we also separated the natural/physical questions from the metaphysical/philosophical questions. Before that time the Philosopher/Scientist raised and answered the questions. Philosophy ceased to be an enquiry into the natural world and thus stopped asking questions that science could be used to answer. [The only metaphysical one hanging on by a thread is cosmology]. The questions that science attempts to answer since that time have been raised by science itself [including deeper metaphysical cosmology questions - bluntly put: a Philosopher cannot understand the theoretical physics (and the theoretical mathematics that goes with it) sufficiently well enough to be of any use at the level required - a knowledge of Nietzsche and Kant is of no value here].
Really? Science cannot fully answer the aesthetic qualities of a flower's colour: we know that a human can appreciate the colour of a flower aesthetically, we can even map the brain activity associated with that appreciation and can study the psychological effects to gain insight into the science of aesthetics; and we know that nectar and pollen eating birds and insects respond to the colour of a flower (which is the reason why they have colour at all). There are many philosophical questions that arises from observation of that science that science itself would not ask because it knows it cannot answer them, such as why do we have an aesthetic appreciation of the colour of a flower and if birds and insects can see those colours do they also have a psychological/emotional response to those colours, and if they do is that aesthetics? Such philosophical ponderings should keep a Philosophy department busy for decades and well away from meddling in economics and politics.
In an ideal world any single ideology will work, but this world is far from ideal. I believe that any single ideology is an impossible goal and we are destined to vacillate between [near] opposing ideologies in perpetuity because while there are people who want an ideology to fail, it invariably will fail. Simplistically, socialism is necessary to prevent the domination of capitalism, and vice versa. The ideal ideology is one where everyone is happy, and that is utopian.
don't make me become an apologist for bloody Hitler Hitler was evil by practically every definition of the word, but I do not believe he ignored basic moral principles but adapted them to his twisted philosophy, I do not believe that he could, and even if he did I do not see how all of the crimes committed under National Socialism can rest entirely on one man's morality - it was his philosophy, ideology, (call it what you will) that his followers enacted. If that stems from Nietzsche's writing then old Friedrich is a moral dilemma all by himself...
? It is not an example of Philosophy making life more understandable.
It loathes me to say it, but you've just done one of those philosophical fallacy things. It doesn't make your argument any weaker or even false in pointing that out, but it does not address the point I was making.
I'm having fun, however this is a thread on vegetarianism, but since you are the OP here, I'm willing to play along. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I cannot completely dispute this because I find it more interesting composing music in modal scales than I do in chromatic scales but have a tendency to throw all other restrictions on composition out of the window, and in other areas of creative endeavour such as writing and painting I prefer to be completely unfettered. However, in food, as I have explained previously, I exercise my palate from a broader palette and explore wider possibilities without restricting myself to select food groups. I appreciate that not everyone does this, or can do this, but in my experience vegetarians are only no better at it than average. I like talking about food and food preparation (erm, I mean cooking) so take every opportunity to discuss it with whoever is interested, if someone is into a cuisine I've not delved into before I can be quite boorish in extracting as much information as I can from them and over the years that has included a number of vegetarians (though not many vegans I have to say) - I'll not claim that is an extensive or comprehensive study but the number of vegetarians whose cooking was unadventurous and very limited was quite surprising - to some even my simple home-made beanburgers where a revelation ... "Oh, I just buy the Linda McCartney stuff" ... From your OP it appears you've only recently turned vegetarian so I hope that you will explore and discover some great vegetarian food, there is life beyond Quorn.
|
|||||||||||||||||
What?
|
|||||||||||||||||
Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 13:11 | ||||||||||||||||
The woman I eat isn't a vegetarian... |
|||||||||||||||||
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|||||||||||||||||
The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 10:10 | ||||||||||||||||
Just a quick point on cutting out meat reducing variety... I would agree, it does in a literal sense. Vegetarianism is a restriction, and thus a reduction. However, like a restriction, it has a direct relationship with creativity, and if you know anything about the creative mind (which I'm sure you both do), it functions better with restrictions. This consequently broadens the mind to more possibilities and more meals that it wouldn't have done previously. Edited by The Pessimist - January 18 2014 at 10:11 |
|||||||||||||||||
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
|||||||||||||||||
Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 18 2014 at 03:11 | ||||||||||||||||
Ah, I don't go in for generalisations, sure many people eat a dull and uninteresting meals regardless of their lifestyle diet, also as creatures of habit many people's diet lacks variety, again this is independent of lifestyle diet choice. My statements remains undeniably correct - I can cook (and eat) the same meals as a vegetarian using the same ingredients, I can then repeat those meals with the addition of meat, that is by definition more varied. I also find it more interesting and yes, that is based upon my particular tastes but for me that is what food is all about - taste - I live to eat, I do not eat to live, so while I am not inclined to the vegetarian lifestyle, I am interested in their recipes. Just because I am an omnivore it doesn't mean I will not eat vegetarian recipes.
The only veg that cooks well in a microwave is frozen peas, but I prefer frozen peas to fresh peas anyway. My microwave does little more than re-heat leftovers and melt butter. Vegetables need to be cooked slowly so you can stop the cooking at precisely the right moment - a microwave is like cooking with a sledgehammer. If I use a gadget to cook veg (which isn't very often) it is the electric steamer - retains all the flavour and loses none of the texture - good for cooking rice too, especially sticky-rice. Pulses in cans - ruddy marvellous invention - I know it's cheaper to buy them dried but that means soaking them for 24 hours before use (or you gonna die), so they're more convenient in a tin. If I come home from work and fancy a bean-burger for dinner I just open a tin of mixed beans, mash them up a bit, add some chilli, form them into patties and fry them - et violin - instant bean burger. Of course as an omnivore I can make myself a bacon cheesebeanburger, and that is probably the finest bean burger ever invented, there isn't a vegetarian recipe that cannot be made more interesting to an omnivore by the addition of one slice of crispy bacon. I'd also make a ragu using tinned beans rather than those highly processed bean-curd meat substitutes (I'm not a big pasta eater and I do not like cooked tomatoes, but I do cook a mean ragu)... or a vegetarian cassoulet with tinned haricot beans and oven roasted root-veg... or a bean and asparagus terrine wrapped in cabbage leaves... or a bean and mushroom goulash... but I suspect I'm preaching to the choir here, I imagine that many vegetarian know the wonder of tinned beans. Fruit in tins is okay too though I don't use them anywhere near as much - a small tin of "mixed fruit cocktail" cooked with tomato ketchup and vinegar makes an instant sweet'n'sour that will cheer-up the most dullest of meals, even a grilled aubergine. So, food is as interesting and as varied as you make it.
Edited by Dean - January 18 2014 at 03:24 |
|||||||||||||||||
What?
|
|||||||||||||||||
catfood03
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 24 2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
Posted: January 17 2014 at 21:07 | ||||||||||||||||
I must confess that I was not reading all the posts in this thread before making my general statement about an oft made criticism levelled against adopting a plant-based diet. It was purely coincidental that it sounded like a direct response to the phrase you highlighted. (I usually use the quote feature in the forum if I am directing specifically to a post) However... you are arguing unfairly when you are presenting opinion as fact. "Less Interesting diet" is your opinion based on your particular tastes in food, and I will deny that quote as correct. "Less varied" can be presented as fact, but I also dismiss this claim as true. If anything going vegetarian has helped me think more creatively about meals I'd never consider when I was focused on a meat diet, and I have built a repertoire of a variety of recipies so that I am never for want of diversity. Sometimes, I get the feeling that many meat-eaters think I eat only salads every day. Indian cuisine alone illustrates my point with a variety in vegetarianism on par with meat dishes.
Actually I am okay with microwavable vegetables (from the frozen food section), good for a quick and easy meal. If I wanted to compare the best with the worst I would've used canned vegetables as my example. Edited by catfood03 - January 17 2014 at 21:15 |
|||||||||||||||||
timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: January 17 2014 at 12:27 | ||||||||||||||||
Life feeds on life and cares not for philosophy........morality........
|
|||||||||||||||||
Post Reply | Page <1234 7> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |