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A Crimson Mellotron View Drop Down
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Points: 4104 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2021 at 04:24
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

How is Rush's 2112 the low point of their career?Confused


That's certainly an interesting choice!

yes, but I want to understand how... 
I will quote this one and not the longer post, so it is less messy here. So, I got this as: Pick a band and pinpoint their best album and their worst (according to the forum user's opinion). However, picking a worst albums (or a low point, as you say) does not necessarily mean I consider this a really bad album, it just comes off at the bottom of the list from my perspective.
And no, I do not dislike the albums I pinpointed as 'worst' for the bands you mentioned in your previous reply (well, most of them). For example, I think WDADU is a good album with awesome instrumentals but weak vocals, therefore a pretty good debut for Dream Theater. And yes, I agree that bands like C-Horse, Mastodon, OSI, Haken, Spock, Flower Kings, Frost*, etc.; (you named them well) never released a bad album, but when I 'rank' their catalogue the records that I mentioned come off at the bottom of the list, that's it.

As for '2112', I have to admit I never understood its appeal; Unfortunately, it is an album that for me encapsulates all the things prog is ridiculed for, and I find it mostly unlistenable (okay, okay, I will back off, let's call it unenjoyable, maybe tedious); And this is entirely a problem of myself, as I find early Rush very hard to listen to without cringing hard. I always found '2112's title track patchy (it has fabulous moments from all three players individually, but does not do much for me overall) and the shorter songs on side two absolutely boring and uninspired. With this cleared out, I can say I much prefer 'Caress of Steel', for example, or even 'Power Windows'.

Hope this clears out the post and it doesn't come off that I am trying to enrage some users by picking their favorite albums as my least favorite ones. Maybe I misunderstood the task. Tongue


Edited by A Crimson Mellotron - August 24 2021 at 04:28
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

How is Rush's 2112 the low point of their career?Confused


That's certainly an interesting choice!

yes, but I want to understand how... 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

How is Rush's 2112 the low point of their career?Confused


That's certainly an interesting choice!
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Originally posted by A Crimson Mellotron A Crimson Mellotron wrote:

Okay, this is a cool thread.
Here are some on my side:

Genesis: Foxtrot - From Genesis to Revelation
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic - Beat
Yes: Close to the Edge - The Ladder
Dream Theater: Images & Words - When Dream and Day Unite
Porcupine Tree: Fear of a Blank Planet - On the Sunday of Life...
Steven Wilson: Hand. Cannot. Erase - The Future Bites
The Mars Volta: Frances the Mute - Nocturniquet
Beardfish: The Void - Fran en Plats du ej Kan Se
Caligula's Horse: In Contact - The Tide, The Thief & River's End
Spock's Beard: V - Noise Floor
The Flower Kings: Banks of Eden - Waiting for Miracles
Frost*: Milliontown - Experiments in Mass Appeal
Galahad: Empires Never Last - Nothing Is Written
Marillion: F E A R - Somewhere Else
Haken: Aquarius - Virus
Leprous: Bilateral - Aeolia
Mastodon: Crack the Skye - Once More 'Round the Sun
The Mute Gods: Do Nothing Till You Hear From Me - Tardigrades Will Inherit the Earth
OSI: S/T - Free
Opeth: Ghost Reveries - Orchid
Pain of Salvation: Remedy Lane - Road Salt One
Pink Floyd: Ummagumma - A Momentary Lapse of Reason
Roger Waters: The Pros & Cons - Amused to Death
Rush: Moving Pictures - 2112
Transatlantic: Bridge Across Forever - The Absolute Universe
Tool: 10,000 Days - Fear Inoculum

...to begin with. Big smile

I must have misunderstood this topic, I thought we were contrasting HIGH and LOWS in artists careers. 

Maybe I should not have quoted you and disagree but some of your choices for LOWS make little to no sense to me, especially with artists I think have never released a really bad, unlistenable album (Pain of Salvation, OSI, Beardfish, Tool, Haken, Spock's Beard, Caligula's Horse, Frost). 

How is Rush's 2112 the low point of their career?Confused
Amused to Death the worst? Radio KAOS and Ca Ira (whatever that was, I could not get behind at all)?
Opeth - Orchid as a low?! Ouch I don't get it, what's wrong with it?

And last thing I will never understand - the bashing of Dream Theater's debut album. I've always thought it was a great album. The low/worst of DT is The Astonishing (that incoherent mess of an album). 
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Okay, this is a cool thread.
Here are some on my side:

Genesis: Foxtrot - From Genesis to Revelation
King Crimson: Larks' Tongues In Aspic - Beat
Yes: Close to the Edge - The Ladder
Dream Theater: Images & Words - When Dream and Day Unite
Porcupine Tree: Fear of a Blank Planet - On the Sunday of Life...
Steven Wilson: Hand. Cannot. Erase - The Future Bites
The Mars Volta: Frances the Mute - Nocturniquet
Beardfish: The Void - Fran en Plats du ej Kan Se
Caligula's Horse: In Contact - The Tide, The Thief & River's End
Spock's Beard: V - Noise Floor
The Flower Kings: Banks of Eden - Waiting for Miracles
Frost*: Milliontown - Experiments in Mass Appeal
Galahad: Empires Never Last - Nothing Is Written
Marillion: F E A R - Somewhere Else
Haken: Aquarius - Virus
Leprous: Bilateral - Aeolia
Mastodon: Crack the Skye - Once More 'Round the Sun
The Mute Gods: Do Nothing Till You Hear From Me - Tardigrades Will Inherit the Earth
OSI: S/T - Free
Opeth: Ghost Reveries - Orchid
Pain of Salvation: Remedy Lane - Road Salt One
Pink Floyd: Ummagumma - A Momentary Lapse of Reason
Roger Waters: The Pros & Cons - Amused to Death
Rush: Moving Pictures - 2112
Transatlantic: Bridge Across Forever - The Absolute Universe
Tool: 10,000 Days - Fear Inoculum

...to begin with. Big smile
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I'm bumping this because it was a good idea for a thread. 
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Porcupine Tree - FOABP best - Stupid Dream worst
The Mars Volta - Frances the Mute best - Octahedron worst
Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine best - Physicist worst
Opeth - Blackwater Park best - Orchid worst
Phideaux - Doomsday Afternoon best - 313 worst
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jethro tull thick as a brick best, worst rock island
genesis foxtrot the best worst duke, not all of duke but some of duke
king crimson icotck worst lizard not all but some of lizard
yes close to the edge, worst open your eyes all of it
emerson lake and palmer debut, worst in the hot seat, very bland outing
moody blues to our childrens children, worst strange times
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Points: 4925 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2019 at 09:22
I am slightly indifferent to The Lamb, it's somewhere in the middle....

BOT: I'll go with my favourite band IQ:

Best: The Road Of Bones
Worst: Dark Matter

Having said that, DM would still score 4/5, 9/10, and is way better than the best albums by other bands I like!

So it's all relative....
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


 But finding The Lamb... unlistenable or Genesis' worst is a rather unique point of view. 


Not a unique point of view at all. Far from it. If you cast your net wider than just prog fans and just what prog fans and prog sites have to say you will find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis does not like Lamb at all, you will further find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis prefers the Collins era to the Gabriel era, as do I. You will also find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis in the 80s and 90s had no idea about the previous prog rock incarnation of Genesis with Gabriel.

I first heard Wind & Wuthering when it came out, then heard Trick in 81 when a friend played it at her party and I carried on from there with the later Collins albums. I didn't even know about Gabriel and the early albums until the late 80s, even though I'd heard bits of W&W in the late 70s.  But I bought them, listened to them, and disliked about half of every album from Trespass to SEBTP and disliked Lamb entirely. I just couldn't get along with Gabriel's voice, lyrics and his clowning around with accents and silly voices. For me Lamb is unlistenable.   

 

The average pop-rock listener? Why bring this into discussion? The average pop-rock listener is missing on a lot of great stuff since he/she is listening to the big hits of mostly famous bands. For them, I have always been the weirdo with strange music taste. They usually have a fixed mind-set, rarely venture outside their comfort zone (musically that is). 
If I was to make a list of my favorite Queen songs, they'd probably know NONE of them. 

Maybe I used the wrong words - "rather unique", but I've rarely seen The lamb... bashed like this on the PA forum. 
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I can understand not liking Lamb, it's not my favorite either, but to consider it the worst Genesis album??? Are all you guys saying that high on goofballs, or drunk, or both?   LOL

Edited by Jeffro - January 11 2019 at 04:44
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Having spent plenty of time on fb Genesis groups I can tell you most of them are fans of the prog era.
 
But that is exactly the type of people I am NOT talking about. They will be big enough fans of Genesis and prog to have registered to and appear on "fb Genesis groups"  They are NOT the average pop/rock listener that happens to listen to Genesis from time to time.   
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Maybe the casual Genesis fans prefer the later pop stuff but based on my experience most of the hardcore fans seem to prefer the Gabriel or Hackett era over the later stuff.
 

Yes, but I'm not talking about hardcore fans, who will mostly be prog fans. Which is why I wrote average pop/rock Genesis listener, who may not even be a Genesis "fan" and just sees Genesis as another pop/rock band with no idea of prog. Which essentially is what they were on every album after Duke.   
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^I felt that way for a while or at least felt it was the weakest Gabriel era album. I'm not so sure anymore though. I think it has this strange quirky charm that the others don't have. I disagree about the average Genesis fan not liking it though and also of the average Genesis fan preferring the Collins era. Having spent plenty of time on fb Genesis groups I can tell you most of them are fans of the prog era. Maybe the casual Genesis fans prefer the later pop stuff but based on my experience most of the hardcore fans seem to prefer the Gabriel or Hackett era over the later stuff.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 10 2019 at 18:41
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^ damn right it isn't unique.. the Lamb sucks ass... and is most certainly Genesis's worst album...
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


 But finding The Lamb... unlistenable or Genesis' worst is a rather unique point of view. 


Not a unique point of view at all. Far from it. If you cast your net wider than just prog fans and just what prog fans and prog sites have to say you will find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis does not like Lamb at all, you will further find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis prefers the Collins era to the Gabriel era, as do I. You will also find that the average pop/rock listener to Genesis in the 80s and 90s had no idea about the previous prog rock incarnation of Genesis with Gabriel.

I first heard Wind & Wuthering when it came out, then heard Trick in 81 when a friend played it at her party and I carried on from there with the later Collins albums. I didn't even know about Gabriel and the early albums until the late 80s, even though I'd heard bits of W&W in the late 70s.  But I bought them, listened to them, and disliked about half of every album from Trespass to SEBTP and disliked Lamb entirely. I just couldn't get along with Gabriel's voice, lyrics and his clowning around with accents and silly voices. For me Lamb is unlistenable.   

    


Edited by LAM-SGC - January 11 2019 at 04:26
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^ Not entirely unique, I find all Genesis unlistenable.


Maybe you don't like the band. LOL Not the same thing IMO. 
But unlistenable?! Don't know about that. Confused
You may have a point. I'm not really an admirer of the vocals, lyrics or general prancing about of Peter Gabriel during his tenure with the band. When it comes to the post-Gabriel era I face a rather severe difficulty as I would rather invite a group of starving weasels to live in my trousers than listen to Phil Collins singing.

Edited by Mascodagama - January 10 2019 at 15:40
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Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^ Not entirely unique, I find all Genesis unlistenable.

Maybe you don't like the band. LOL Not the same thing IMO. 
But unlistenable?! Don't know about that. Confused
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^ Not entirely unique, I find all Genesis unlistenable.
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Originally posted by LAM-SGC LAM-SGC wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:


Sorry for complaining, I just could not help it. Ouch
 

Different strokes for different folks. We can't all like the same stuff. I have heard every PF album and every Genesis album. And I much prefer Invisible Touch and Calling All Stations to Lamb.  To my ears they are good pops albums, plus in 86 when it came out Invisible Touch was the very first CD I bought. Lamb to me is just unlistenable.

As for The Wall, no thanks. There are many other PF albums that are far better. Never understood the fascination with The Wall. Why would I listen to the Wall when I can listen to Relics, Piper, Saucerful, Meddle, Obscured by Clouds, DSOTM, Ummagumma, More, AHM.....and The Final Cut!     

Obviously we can't all like the same stuff. But finding The Lamb... unlistenable or Genesis' worst is a rather unique point of view. 

I too find PF to have better, more interesting albums than the Wall (Saucerful, More, AHM, Meddle, Obscured, DTotM, WYWH, Animals). I even enjoy The Wall more than Piper, for which I need a special mood. Big smile 
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