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Topic ClosedAbundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 23:37
The thing this thread has struggled to imply is that a band MUST be better, ignoring the fact that one-person vs band are equally valid avenues of artistic expression.  Keeping in mind that one man created Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and a band created Dark Side of the Moon - both towering artistic achievements, the real issue here is that such moments are VERY rare.  These rare moments have occurred in both instances and will continue to be VERY rare.  The rest will not be as good.  However, that does not mean the rest is bad either.  The rest is what we spend most of our time listening to.  That the towering moments only occur rarely has nothing to do with one person vs a band.  It has everything to do with the rareness of such events.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 09:12
I think we all understand Richard Pryor...Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:58
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ No, I really mean that "lucked out" obviously has the opposite meaning in the USA than it does in the UK. Geek
 
Still don't know what you mean ... but then I don't expect you to understand Richard Pryor or Sam Kenniston either ... !!!
 
Okay - in simple terms -
 
"Lucked out" in the USA means good luck, to experience great luck; to be extremely fortunate or lucky
 
"Lucked out" in the UK it means the exact opposite, it means your luck has run out, unlucky, bad luck.
 
When referring to a British artist, performer or band I'd stick to the British meaning myself, but hey-ho.
 
 
So... Which particular Richard Pryor stand-up routine do you not expect me to understand? Which Sam Kinison stand-up routine do you not expect me to understand? I do like being underestimated.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ No, I really mean that "lucked out" obviously has the opposite meaning in the USA than it does in the UK. Geek
 
Still don't know what you mean ... but then I don't expect you to understand Richard Pryor or Sam Kenniston either ... !!!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 17:18
^ No, I really mean that "lucked out" obviously has the opposite meaning in the USA than it does in the UK. Geek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2013 at 14:10
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

"lucked out" obviously has the opposite meaning in the USA than it does in the UK.
 
I actually think that it is a great idea for starting a band ... you know what you want and how ... and here it is ... and if someone wants to play with it, fine, if they don't ... fine!
 
I keep thinking that Robert Fripp should have done that 30 years ago!
 
Luck or no luck, grabbing Richard Barbieri was obvsiously a monster ... that helped make the band ... unless Richard was starving an dliving in a backyard nearby and hobo'ing during the evenings he was not playing! And the other 3 folks are not exactly bad players ... a bit too clinical for my tastes, but still very good and the combination is good.
 
Funny thing is that Steven sounds different on his own ... and like a different band ... and that means PT is not quite Steven, and he had to give up a portion of that world!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 15:50
"lucked out" obviously has the opposite meaning in the USA than it does in the UK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2013 at 12:52
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

I haven't noticed that many to be honest. Maybe I'm not paying that close attention though. Has Soniq Theater been mentioned yet? They(he)is the best one man prog band in a long time imo.
 
I always liked the fact that Steven Wilson fooled all of us by creating a band, selling the stuff on cassettes for a couple of years, and everyone thought it was great ... and then he lucked out with a couple of great musicians to support him to make an excellent band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 22:17
I haven't noticed that many to be honest. Maybe I'm not paying that close attention though. Has Soniq Theater been mentioned yet? They(he)is the best one man prog band in a long time imo.

Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 12 2013 at 22:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2013 at 15:28
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

...
I respect both current and past technologies and the way that older ways of handling music meant more care and attention into the mastering and producing ect. I didn;t mean for my point to come across as dismissing everything that has come before, because that is NOT what I believe at all - 

I apologise for the lack of clarification.
 
I really believe that it is too soon to make that distinction and determination ... it will probably be another 10 to 20 years, before we can see some better examples of the work in action and things kinda go back to the "composer" thing, instead of "band" thing.
 
This whole technological thing is too new ... for goodness' sakes ... I can play with the VST's and Jupiter 8V software just fine ... but recording it and adding to it in a DAW? ... I'm worse than a mentally retarted nerd! Maybe being blind is an issue, because you can play by feel ... but you CA NOT record by feel!
 
But get ready for hundreds and hundreds of Mike Oldfields and the like ... once the rap things kinda die down a bit, and some of the top ten dried out until something new shows up.
 
In many ways, and we do not see it, folks like Kate Bush, Madonna and many others are "one-person" bands, in that they usually create their music in its entirety ... and that is almost another element that we're not capable of discussing in this area, which also fits! The same issue rests in "prog" as it does, anywhere else ... and I'm not sure that we should be discussing one and not the other, or see the parallels in all of them!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2013 at 07:16
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:



The Louvre with be around and of interest to future generations for a lot longer than the Computer museum in San Jose.  Digital art played on flat screens will have about as much longevity as a Mac Donalds french fry.

A persons itunes library will not have the lasting quality level of a great vinyl collection. 

If you don't understand this.. you need to have your ears examined.




I'm guessing you're over 40 years old right? Because it's incredibly short sighted to dismiss the digital age like that. It's taking over and improving our quality of life. 

I have only heard such archaic opinions from the older generation stuck in the past... In every generation there are always people dismissing current advances in favour of older tech/opinions/attitudes. I wish people like you could step back and see how you look from the outside. 

Ridiculous, that's what.

I wish there was a way that I could reach you just with a few points if I may. Please understand that you must examine both sides and the pros and cons of both generations. As it was stated before by a experienced musician on this thread...well, the point is that the musician was never letting go of unorthodox recording methods in total favor of digital dependency. This is interesting and very creative mixing influences of the past with new technology, but it is rare when you calculate the percentage of musicians who find past methods laughable or even moronic. Innovators existed during the analog period and they took the quantum leap with the technology. For example the first artist to create electronic sequences by merely doing basic time consuming overdubs. Wendy Carlos,, Mort Garson, Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze laid foundations of recordng methods for future 80's electronic artists and beyond.

I feel that vinyl is senseless to my ear. I was spoiled by the cutting edge of Zappa's production once it was released on compact disc and sold my vinyl. I am more disturbed by this programming in the minds of digital fanatics where upon an attitude of their own expresses that digital technology completely rules and the past is senseless. This is all around me and I am not a sweety looking for sympathy but merely stating a fact which exist through some kind of corrupted mind set that closes off barriers of generations. How ignorant it is to programme your mind to think only of  technology and that creative music from the past is useless compared to what can be accomplished today. I am in and out of professional recording studios, rehearsal rooms, venues,...every week and I witness this attitude more than the occasional artist who wants to be like Mike Oldfield. Someone who wants to educate themselves to both sides and have awareness and appreciate changes in music from every decade. Digital technology combined with a person who is on 1 side of the fence is vast today and if you don't believe me then get yourself out there in the music business and see for yourself. Very sad.

What difference does it make...specifically what generation a creation in music derives from? Credit/respect should be rendered to the greats of every generation and by simply being humble..you can educate yourself in the process. But at any rate, this is the experience I have had with musicians in the business who are impatient when something doesn't happen guick enough. They assume that buttons will arrive them to their destination quicker than allowing themselves to breath and flow with the natural talent within them. It's a flippin' shame that so many musicians have to be that way. Then I cross paths with a female violinist who records progressive , understands that the open minded attitude of the people in my band and herself is rare and so I arrive to this conclusion through my exposure to the business. Technology is a wonderful tool. I love it!...but I long for the majority of musicians to go back to their old ways of thinking when every vibe in the studio made you feel free and non-restricted to the artform.

I completely understand your argument, but I think you got the wrong end of mine. I was not arguing only in favour of technology and dismissing all previous ways of creating music. In fact, I didn't mean for that point to really be about music at all, simply to illustrate that thinking any technological advancement is an abomination compared to the way things used to be is an incredibly short sighted opinion.

I respect both current and past technologies and the way that older ways of handling music meant more care and attention into the mastering and producing ect. I didn;t mean for my point to come across as dismissing everything that has come before, because that is NOT what I believe at all - 

I apologise for the lack of clarification.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2013 at 07:02
Very interesting thread! As a one man band myself with Spleen Arcana, I couldn't help myself to reply Wink

I played in various bands, and it was great to play live and meet other musicians, I truly miss it but I started to play and record alone very naturally when other musicians didn't want to follow the same path as me (which is ok of course, it depends on a lot of things, musical reasons most of the times but also human reasons). The fact is it's very hard to find musicians who want to go in the same musical direction, so... Just to say it was not a question of ego, like I wanted to play everything just to play everything. I gave up on the drums because I had the chance to find a great drummer who plays far better than me LOL

I absolutely agree with the original poster about the magic of a band playing live in the studio, recording together (I'm thinking of the Yes footage recording Going For The One, in Montreux I believe) BUT many recordings are just done like one man band, one instrument at a time, and sending files between musicians is more and more commun (I'm thinking about Transatlantic for example).

Mike Oldfield being one of my heroes, I truly like the way he recorded his albums alone but with additional guests to add even more magic to his music Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2013 at 03:20
yeah lol, most one man projects usually build a home studio of sorts or use a real studio, it's not like they're recording everything through the macbook microphone or some sh*t...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2013 at 02:11
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

The spun digital releases are usually poorly engineered.  You can't properly mix an album on computer bookshelf speakers or ipod earbuds.  That's silly.

I've never mixed an album using computer bookshelf speakers or iplod ear buds or heard of anyone doing it that way, that's not just silly, it's positively moronic. If you know of an album mixed like that then name it. If anyone reading this mixes an album using computer bookshelf speakers or iplod ear buds then stop it immediately.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2013 at 00:39
The majority of the time, the major labels did a good job making sure their artists were recorded, engineered and produced properly.

Self produced bands have not have a good history.  Even YES failed on Going for the One and Tormato.  Tormato could have been a great record with better direction.  Going for the One was simply recorded terribly.

The spun digital releases are usually poorly engineered.  You can't properly mix an album on computer bookshelf speakers or ipod earbuds.  That's silly.

A truly great album needs to be a team effort with a good producer and engineer.  There are not may Jimmy Page's walking around this earth unfortunately.

More releases from indie one man band guys does not equate better quality or product.  It could.. but not likely.

The old way was the better way.. sorry to break the news to you.. but it is just fact.  No one has out done the great prog acts of the past. 

You settle for less.... not me...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2013 at 14:26
To be fair - I've not been in a McDonalds since my two sons grew up and started to appreciate real food - like special mixed kebabs and arctic moose vindaloo and the such...so I haven't set foot in one for about 15 years......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2013 at 14:00
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

THEY ARE CALLED CHIPS !!! - MEAT GROWLER (OR BABBIES YEAD), CHIPS PEAS N GRAVY...ROCKS....
It's called a Pie.  Pie and chips with peas and gravy Geek
You need to get down with the vernacular = a pie has always been known as a Growler is some parts of northern England, and a steak pudding has a colloquilaism (sp?) of "Babbies yead" or Babies head - since the pudding is squashy like that bit of a babies head is before the skull closes up...............
Ah, my old cocker, my point exactly. I'm glad we agree, though I'd never call those stringy things that McDonuts sell "Chips". Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2013 at 13:54
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

THEY ARE CALLED CHIPS !!! - MEAT GROWLER (OR BABBIES YEAD), CHIPS PEAS N GRAVY...ROCKS....
It's called a Pie.  Pie and chips with peas and gravy Geek
You need to get down with the vernacular = a pie has always been known as a Growler is some parts of northern England, and a steak pudding has a colloquilaism (sp?) of "Babbies yead" or Babies head - since the pudding is squashy like that bit of a babies head is before the skull closes up...............

Edited by M27Barney - January 07 2013 at 13:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2013 at 13:27
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:


The abundance of one man bands is mostly the symptom of just how much easier it is these days for one person to record than it was decades ago.

That's right. Knowing how hard it was before and how easy it is now, I am excited by this. I can't fathom the lack of enthusiasm about this. This is opportunity. Everything digital is not great or awful just because it's digital. MP3s suck, for instance, and I would like to hear more dynamic contrast and less compression, but we can pick and choose the best of the digital age as it evolves.
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

The quality is based on the proficiency of the musician.

Right. Although I would throw in 'creativity', 'innovativeness' and other such descriptive nouns to your statement. I'm not convinced by arguments from others that quality of musicianship is or will decline. It was no better or worse in the past.
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

It is not impossible for a good all-around musician to create a great album by himself/herself, but there are advantages (as well as disadvantages) in playing with other musicians. 

Yes, this is a well-measured appropriately moderate viewpoint in my eyes.
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Also, another thing to note, a great musician tends to attract other musicians.  So that musician may have an easier time putting together a band of enthusiastic players to perform the music.
Exactly. I don't know that we are in a down time necessarily, but even if we are, Prog will survive as an underground force through their self-produced material in a way that wasn't possible in other periods, such as in the 80s. Those that do form bands in the future will be more experienced with recording and handling their own business affairs.

Edited by HackettFan - January 07 2013 at 13:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2013 at 13:25
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


At any rate I liked Dean's statement that "the abundance of one-man bands is not the cause of anything, it could be a symptom".

When I follow a phrase with a "but..." it means I do not agree with that statement. Scott answered the implied question rather well:
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

The abundance of one man bands is mostly the symptom of just how much easier it is these days for one person to record than it was decades ago. 
And those conditions are equally valid for a band - it is much easier for a band to record than it was decades ago, and we are seeing that today as well - more bands are self-recording, self-producing and self-releasing - the most popular Prog albums of the past year has seen a significant increase in self-recorded and self-released albums. This is a shifting trend that now sees the big boys having to compete with these little "indie" bands and the one-man bands (like Dean Watson and Colin Mold) on an equal footing for once.
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