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Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
Posted: October 30 2012 at 12:52
javajeff wrote:
Glass Hammer has a few albums that should be rated over 4.00, but they are lower at PA. Compare their top four albums to anything on the 2011 top 100, and their albums are rated low. Their highest is a 3.75. They make solid prog. Why don't they get higher ratings from the PA audience? Do they sound too much like other groups?
Why? Because the currently active members on progarchives don't represent the prog mainstream at all - most are RIO/avant and post rock fanatics. Wierd and tuneless is great, melody is for old farts. Almost all the symphonic lovers I know who used to be on here have left in frustration at being ridiculed for liking 70s music (senile old coot, one member referred to me as, but luckily I give not a pig's burp for his opinion so I stayed). I do like a lot of modern music though and Glass Hammer are very good. Unfortunately, as you allude to in your final sentence, like IQ, Marillion and Mostly Autumn, allegations of near plagiarism of earlier great bands dog them; some do not understand the difference between "influenced by" and "copying".
And actually, 3.75 is a very good score so don't be too disheartened.
Aye but unfortunately - a helluva lot of English is based on Latin and some of my favourite words are Latin too - I'll leave you to guess what those are!!!
Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
Posted: October 29 2012 at 22:02
richardh wrote:
ISurprisingly very enjoyable as I didn't like IF at all. I was expecting a clone of IF...
Heresy. Plain & simple.
IF is awesome, except for the preachiness, but the tunes rock!
May I suggest you go back and give it another listening? You are quite obviously doing something wrong.
OK, seriously....
For me, I went bannanas over IF. Cor Cordium or cordoba or conundrum or whatever doesn't work for me at all, just notes, no feeling, I did like the song Nothing Box, though, quite a bit. Plus I hate people who try to give me Latin lessons! Speak English! I say! It was good enough for Henry VIII and Roye Albrighton & Elton John....
You are from England....think of all the bloodshed and lives that would have been spared over the centuries if those arrogant French people, just spoke English??? Think about it.
Who needs Latin??? Who needs the Peace Corps???
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7275
Posted: October 28 2012 at 22:38
I just received my CD of "Perilous" today....It's much better than the last three Yes albums for sure! I hear many influences (UK for one) and believe that PA fans will enjoy it. Jon Davison is just fantastic!
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: October 28 2012 at 04:08
Richard, I definately think `Cor Cordium' has a much wider range of infleunces than the tired `Yes' clones dismissal!
Looking foward to the newie, guys!
I'm thinking of launching into a review spree of all the albums/DVD's I have of this band. There's one or two gaps with some earlier titles I don't have, but I'll be tracking down copies of those soon enough too!
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28075
Posted: October 28 2012 at 03:51
I decided to download Cor Cordium yesterday while also placing an order for Perilious. Surprisingly very enjoyable as I didn't like IF at all. I was expecting a clone of IF but Cor Cordium is much more to my ears. Its does often sound like Yes ineveitably given the vocals but I can detect wider influences coming from Gentle Giant and even Supertramp. The music really breathes and I get that nice feeling of warmth from the music I didn't get with IF. Nice one and looking forward even more to Perilious now!
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Posted: October 27 2012 at 21:18
Ambient Hurricanes wrote:
...Glass Hammer often gets tagged as a Yes clone...
That's really interesting, because their use of the classic Hammond organ sound gives it more of that ELP sound than a Yes sound to me. Of course, I am gauging "Yes sound" by the Wakeman era (1971-1973, 1977, etc.) because of his copious use of synthesizers and the Mander pipe organ...
Joined: August 11 2012
Location: Toadstool
Status: Offline
Points: 1787
Posted: October 27 2012 at 21:07
Just got Perilous today and been through 1 spin and is a solid release (based on 1 spin). As with most GH album's, they take multiple listens and they usually grow upwards in approval. Davison's vocals are stellar and usual excellent musicianship. There is a little different feel to this as each song flows into the other in a concept format.
I must mention that when I was deciding on which LP to purchase today, I took a sample listen to "Three Cheers for the Broken Hearted" and just from the sample listens, it has a total different feel to it than most GH albums, a little darker and heavier with great female vocals. That may be my next purchase by them instead of "If" or something from early on.
To stay on the theme of the thread, I find that both GH and Flower Kings to usually get those 3 to 4 ratings overall, but never seem to reach that "masterpiece" or 4 to 5 rating debates (for the most part).
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28075
Posted: October 26 2012 at 01:38
Progdaybay wrote:
A good topic !
I started buying 2000-prog albums with The Flower Kings and Glass Hammer, and my first GH-CD was Chronometree. Since I love keyboard music because I am a keyboardist, I got impressed by their music.
And of course they get too low scorings !! It is a shame.
But... I must say that I still consider the GH-voice to be Walter Moore. Too bad he is not there anymore. Their best production was when he was there, singing and playing. And it was huge in my ears.
It happens that I do personal compilations of the CD's I have, on the overall quality of music for a complete album (i.e. high scoring when all tracks are good), and believe it or not : GH has 2 CD's in my Top-5 of all-time ! This means concerning ANY prog album ! And they are : Inconsolable Secret (#5) and Lex Rex (#2). Get that ! A competition with ALL other CD's and bands !! Of course, Moore was the singer on these.
'Inconsolable' gets high emotions going, and 'Lex' is perfection.
I also like very much 'Arianna', 'Chronometree' and 'Compilations', which has the beauty 'Alkinoos'. 'Shadowlands' is more up and down, with the climax being the last.
They have low outings also : 'Culture of Ascent' is, in my view, impossible to understand, musically, the best track being the 'Yes' remake ! The last two are good productions, but I don't recognize GH enough in comparison to those cited above. I would give them something like 3.8 and 3.5 / 5. They remain very good interesting CD's to hear.
Since both CD's of GH I love most are concept albums : watch the next one ! It could be a very big thing, even if there are no epics.
So, Yeah ! When I see my #2 CD of all-time getting hammered, I am shocked. But I understand that it is a world open site, and everything is possible... unfortunately !
Lex Rex probably gets low marks because of the very unfortunate attempts to do a English accent in between the tunes (the narative). Musically its great though. Tales Of The Great Wars is probably my favourite modern symphonic prog track and stands up against the best symph prog imo.
The Inconsolable Secret is a tricky album. When I first heard it I dodn't like it all that much. Seemed some of the warmth and magic of the earlier albums had gone missing and overall far too long and stretched out. Now I feel very different about it. Solid gold masterpeice! I just needed time to appreciate it. I did look at some of the other reviews though and it seems that many just didn't like the unconventional structure of the music rather than lack of good content. Its probably running at half a star less than it should be on its current average rating. Shame really.
I was uber-impressed with that little snippet - this is one I shall buy - but it's very alike loads and loads of other ambient prog intros - somebody will cry......and that cry will wash upon the ears of "the Knowers" and it will be as the cry of the demonic Djins - to be left to echo for all of eternity...reafirming the ignorance of the masses.....
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: October 25 2012 at 12:27
I do think the `Yes-clone' criticisms of Glass Hammer have really kicked in since the arrival of Jon, not helped by the fact that at least with `If', the Hammer guys modeled their sound more on that classic band than ever. I'm not actually taking a shot at him or the band here, and I do think that `Cor Cordium' found more of it's own identity and was less `Yes' inspired than `If'.
I think if you look back at Chronomotree, Lex, Shadowlands, Inconsolable..., etc, they generally had a broader symphonic 70's sound as opposed to just influenced by the one band. Trying to merge their grand sound with all sorts of elements of their beloved favourite bands.
I was listening to `Culture Of Ascent' just an hour ago, and I thought they really went all out trying to find new directions, with very complex and experimental incorporation of orchestral elements, heavier guitar and a darker mood.
Joined: December 19 2007
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 3472
Posted: October 25 2012 at 12:09
I have every GH album, including the new one. I happen to be listening to "Perilous" as I type. So far, it's not as good as my favorite of theirs, "The Inconsolable Secret," but it's really great. Maybe on par with "Lex Rex."
I personally would rate my favorite album of theirs with four stars (12/15 on my Gnosis ratings). I think the points made thus far are valid in terms of their safe style, etc., but I do think they have developed their own personality. What I wonder about is why bands like GH, Flower Kings, and other retrosymph bands have their passionate fans, but by and large miss out on the general praise heaped upon other retro bands like Haken. Is it the metal stylings of the latter? I don't know, but I certainly like GH and TFK better than those others, though in my book their best is still a ways away from the best of the 70s.
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: October 25 2012 at 08:39
I think to many people on here they are TOO retro sounding, that they represent the `old' kind of 70's self-indulgent arrogant overblown prog - perhaps they do, but to many like me, that's exactly what we love about them! Their epic arrangements, virtuoso playing, big concepts, etc!
And I have to disagree - the `South Side Of The Sky' remake that opens `Culture' is far and away the worst thing on the album! It starts off very dark and interesting, quite different and original, then almost instantly falls into a straight remake, just with female vocals instead. A missed oppurtunity!
I don't think `Culture' is their best album, but tracks like `Sun Song' and `Life By Light' are incredible pieces! Wonderful lyrics/vocals, heartfelt singing, endless impressive instrumental passages, grand and inspiring arrangements! The heavier guitar helps give that album it's unique identity amongst their other albums.
Joined: March 13 2010
Location: Québec
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Posted: October 25 2012 at 08:29
A good topic !
I started buying 2000-prog albums with The Flower Kings and Glass Hammer, and my first GH-CD was Chronometree. Since I love keyboard music because I am a keyboardist, I got impressed by their music.
And of course they get too low scorings !! It is a shame.
But... I must say that I still consider the GH-voice to be Walter Moore. Too bad he is not there anymore. Their best production was when he was there, singing and playing. And it was huge in my ears.
It happens that I do personal compilations of the CD's I have, on the overall quality of music for a complete album (i.e. high scoring when all tracks are good), and believe it or not : GH has 2 CD's in my Top-5 of all-time ! This means concerning ANY prog album ! And they are : Inconsolable Secret (#5) and Lex Rex (#2). Get that ! A competition with ALL other CD's and bands !! Of course, Moore was the singer on these.
'Inconsolable' gets high emotions going, and 'Lex' is perfection.
I also like very much 'Arianna', 'Chronometree' and 'Compilations', which has the beauty 'Alkinoos'. 'Shadowlands' is more up and down, with the climax being the last.
They have low outings also : 'Culture of Ascent' is, in my view, impossible to understand, musically, the best track being the 'Yes' remake ! The last two are good productions, but I don't recognize GH enough in comparison to those cited above. I would give them something like 3.8 and 3.5 / 5. They remain very good interesting CD's to hear.
Since both CD's of GH I love most are concept albums : watch the next one ! It could be a very big thing, even if there are no epics.
So, Yeah ! When I see my #2 CD of all-time getting hammered, I am shocked. But I understand that it is a world open site, and everything is possible... unfortunately !
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7275
Posted: July 30 2012 at 01:32
GH have a new "concept" CD coming out later in 2012, to be titled "Perilous." I've already posted this elsewhere, but please check this out. BTW, Jon Davison does the vocals and will be joining with GH for future tour plans!!
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Why does Glass Hammer get Hammered here?
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javajeff wrote:
Who needs the Peace Corps???
