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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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 Posted: November 16 2011 at 23:02 |
I always believed W&W was a clear refeence to Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights
Ax a fact songs 6 and 7 are a literal quote from the book
"I lingered round them, under that benign sky; watched the moths fluttering among the heath, and hare-bells; listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass; and wondered how anyone could ever imagine unquiet slumbers, for the sleepers in that quiet earth".
About One for the Vine, I always thought it could be the conclusion of THE KNIFE. In the song from Trespass, the leader offers freedom in exchange for sacrifice, in "One for the Vine", some followers are disenchanted of promises and violence.
What I can't understand is why they made a song about John Erskine 22th or 11th Earl of Mar), the most incompetent characters of the 15 Jacobite Rising.
Iván
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 22:43 |
Can some of you experts tell me your thoughts on what the songs are about?
I believe first and foremost it is about crossing over from adolescent years to mature adulthood years The terms Wind and Wuthering would refer to the tree that bends in the wind when storms come and how they stand tall despite the turmoil. Thus referring to the rollercoaster of emotions one experiences when faced with difficult decisions.
Eg: One for the Vine
Fifty thousand men were sent
to do the will of one.
His claim was
phrased quite simply, though he never voiced it loud,
I am he, the chosen
one.
The
protagonist is called to serve as the
chosen one, and immediately the majestic music echoes the sentiments of the one
who will lead. It is regal and uplifting with some dark tones representing the
conflict he feels within as he is forced to make the difficult choice.
In his name they
could slaughter, for his name they could die.
Though many there
were believed in him, still more were sure he lied,
But they'll fight
the battle on.
The leader knows that many
will die under his leadership but nevertheless must lead in order to instigate freedom.
This may also represent the holy wars as told in The Bible, following the same
themes as in other Genesis albums especially From Genesis to Revelation. The main protagonist is experiencing the changes of adolescence to
adulthood as a reluctant leader forced into going in directions without choice
that lead him to an eventual demise. Religious overtones abound, and there are
multiple interpretations. The protagonist is on the verge of crossing the line
between divine inspiration and delusion. He has many people around him who
believe in him to the point that leads him to an ultimate decision to take up leadership
with both reigns firmly in hand. It takes quite a deal of soul searching before
he finally decides to fulfil his purpose instead of doing things his own way.
As he takes on the responsibility to leading he crosses into adulthood.
This is he, God's chosen
one,
Who's come to save
us from
All our oppressors.
We shall be kings
on this world.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:48 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage?  |
Steve Hackett, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford played in Voyage of the Acolyte. So, three Genesis members were involved in Voyage. 
Iván. |
Yeah...but why are you telling me? You think I forgot? 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:43 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage? |
Steve Hackett, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford played in Voyage of the Acolyte. So, three Genesis members were involved in Voyage.
Snow Dog wrote:
And I have heard Collins saying pretty much the same. Maybe he was just agreeing with Tony but what difference does that make? Collins saying it and banks saying = Genesis saying it. |
Banks said it and participated nowhere.
Phil Collins played in Brand X since 1976, so he was not completely devoted to Genesis, ergo, it was Tony's call.
Iván.
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 16 2011 at 11:50
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:39 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
That is your opinion to which you are entitled. In my experience humans are more complicated than that and I have heard Collins also state that the future of Genesis should be secure before doing solos. |
| TB: Well, the first time I ever thought about doing a solo project was after Peter [Gabriel] left the band around Trick of The Tail. Then I thought, if Genesis is going to carry on, we really need to put all of the best ideas into that next album.
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It's clear, Tony himself says this was his idea, later the band supported him, but originally, three members of Genesis were involved in Voyage.
Iván
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And I have heard Collins saying pretty much the same. Maybe he was just agreeing with Tony but what difference does that make? Collins saying it and banks saying = Genesis saying it.
Why are you telling me that three members of Genesis were involved with Voyage?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 11:33 |
Snow Dog wrote:
That is your opinion to which you are entitled. In my experience humans are more complicated than that and I have heard Collins also state that the future of Genesis should be secure before doing solos. |
| TB: Well, the first time I ever thought about doing a solo project was after Peter [Gabriel] left the band around Trick of The Tail. Then I thought, if Genesis is going to carry on, we really need to put all of the best ideas into that next album.
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It's clear, Tony himself says this was his idea, later the band supported him, but originally, three members of Genesis were involved in Voyage.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 16 2011 at 11:33
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:49 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
Iván |
I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove? |
For what i heard in "Genesis a History DVD" Tony states "I didn't believed it was healthy for the band to release solo albums".
I'm sure that if Phil and Mike would had believed it was not healthy for Genesis, if Steve released VOTA; they would not have taken part in the project..
Iván |
That is your opinion to which you are entitled. In my experience humans are more complicated than that and I have heard Collins also state that the future of Genesis should be secure before doing solos.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:46 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
Iván |
I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove? |
For what i heard in "Genesis a History DVD" Tony states "I didn't believed it was healthy for the band to release solo albums".
I'm sure that if Phil and Mike would had believed it was not healthy for Genesis, if Steve released VOTA; they would not have taken part in the project..
Iván
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 10:41 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
Iván |
I can only tell you what they have stated. Anf why should they not help out on a friends album but still dissaprove?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 08:47 |
Snow Dog wrote:
The problem was the band didn't want anyone issuing solo albums until the future of Genesis was secure. That's why Collins album came out at the time of Duke. It was allowed then. I f Steve had been patient he could have stayed in Genesis and released solo albums.
Furthermore, Voyage was NOT as succesful as previous Genesis albums as Ivan states. |
1.- Well, you can't affirm that the band didn't want anybody issuing solo albums when Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford took part in the Steve Hackett album if they didn't believe it was correct, they wouldn't had participated in the album...This makes 3 out of 4 Genesis members in Voyage of the Acolyte...You can say Tony Banks didn't wanted band members issuing solo albums
2.- Yes Snow Dog, I should had used the term "As critically acclaimed a previous albums"
Iván
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 07:59 |
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Thanks for all the info here everyone. It helps my next blog entry in the Genesis thread.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
refugee wrote:
^Hmm … they all contributed to the music, didn’t they? And a lot of lyrics were not written by Gabriel. As far as I know, The Musical Box was a typical band composition (also lyricwise, with contributions by Ant as well), For Absent Friends was made by Hackett and Collins, Seven Stones was written by Banks alone, the lyrics of Fountain was, I think, co-written by Banks and Rutherford (though others may have been involved). Watcher was Banks/Rutherford, Time Table was Banks alone, Gabriel made the music to Willow Farm. Firth of Fifth was again Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett adding the fantastic solo, of course, we all know that Hackett made After the Ordeal, and the lyrics for Cinema Show were written by Banks and Hackett. The Lamb …is another story, of course, but still (again as far as I know) Gabriel made the music to Counting out Time and The Chamber … and the main melody of Carpet Crawlers.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure you know a lot more about Genesis than I
do. Still I feel it’s a bit wrong to generalise, saying that "Tony made
most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks". But you’re
probably right about Hackett’s role and that Banks got a bit of a shock
when when VotA was released.
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The collaboration is relative, the main songwritter in Genesis was always Tony, and the main lyricist was peter.
Of course there are exceptions, but hardly anybody was competition for Tony before Peter left.
Iván |
Without proof I cannot accept your assertion. It's news to me but maybe it's relative. Depends what "main songwriter" actually means. 51% of the tunes? Many or even most of the basic ideas for the music may have been his, but the majority of the finished product was a group effort.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 16 2011 at 05:40
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ten years after
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 05:28 |
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When Gabriel left, the adventure and excitement left with him. TOTT and WAW have lots of pleasant melodies and excellent musicianship but there's rather too much sugar and not enough chilli for my taste.
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richardh
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 01:47 |
wilmon91 wrote:
Surprised of the popularity of Eleventh Earl. For me it's too messy. Collins is trashing the hi-hat. More of that sound can be found on "And then there were three". The highlight though is the "time to go to bed now" part.
For me the best songs are arguably One for the Vine and Blood on The Rooftops. I can't choose one of them. |
For me Collins playing feels a bit 'stiff' on this album.
I find And Then There Were Three more satisfying with Collins particularly shining on tracks like Down and Out ,Deep In The Motherlode and Burning Rope. Duke was even better though!
Edited by richardh - November 16 2011 at 01:49
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Fox On The Rocks
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 22:08 |
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One For The Vine tied with Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth.
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Lark the Starless
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 19:04 |
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Just one of those great "winter albums."
I vote for "Blood on the Rooftops." Spectacular intro.
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criticdrummer94
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 18:58 |
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say All in a Mouse's Night
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MY IDOLS
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 18:05 |
refugee wrote:
^Hmm … they all contributed to the music, didn’t they? And a lot of lyrics were not written by Gabriel. As far as I know, The Musical Box was a typical band composition (also lyricwise, with contributions by Ant as well), For Absent Friends was made by Hackett and Collins, Seven Stones was written by Banks alone, the lyrics of Fountain was, I think, co-written by Banks and Rutherford (though others may have been involved). Watcher was Banks/Rutherford, Time Table was Banks alone, Gabriel made the music to Willow Farm. Firth of Fifth was again Banks and Rutherford, with Hackett adding the fantastic solo, of course, we all know that Hackett made After the Ordeal, and the lyrics for Cinema Show were written by Banks and Hackett. The Lamb …is another story, of course, but still (again as far as I know) Gabriel made the music to Counting out Time and The Chamber … and the main melody of Carpet Crawlers.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m sure you know a lot more about Genesis than I
do. Still I feel it’s a bit wrong to generalise, saying that "Tony made
most of the music and Peter made the lyrics of most tracks". But you’re
probably right about Hackett’s role and that Banks got a bit of a shock
when when VotA was released.
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The collaboration is relative, the main songwritter in Genesis was always Tony, and the main lyricist was peter.
Of course there are exceptions, but hardly anybody was competition for Tony before Peter left.
Iván
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wilmon91
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 16:52 |
Surprised of the popularity of Eleventh Earl. For me it's too messy. Collins is trashing the hi-hat. More of that sound can be found on "And then there were three". The highlight though is the "time to go to bed now" part.
For me the best songs are arguably One for the Vine and Blood on The Rooftops. I can't choose one of them.
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Hercules
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 16:21 |
Not a great album IMO. Just solid 3*.
Not offensive in any way, but lacks the spark of genius of earlier albums. Trick of the Tail was much better but still nowhere near the genius of Trespass through to SEBTP.
Best track - probably Eleventh Earl of Mar.
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Wind and Wuthering - Genesis Poll
