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leonalvarado View Drop Down
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 16:10
Negoba,

There is nothing wrong with what the kid did. I also have not one but two daughters. It is not about her. It is about those who instead of just going to You Tube to check what all the fuzz is about, decided instead to pay for it to the tune of $50,000 dollars so far. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? (Maybe I am)Sleepy
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:55
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Who the hades is Rebecca Black?
 
I watched this on youtube...
 
So you make yourself an amateur song, make an amateur video, put it on youtube for your friends to see...is there anything wrong with that?
 
I must say there's a lot of people being very mean to a kid who was doing what about half the people on this board do...make music in their basement (or backyards) for fun.
 
Some sarcastic pimply nerds make fun of it and it goes viral.
 
 
I don't know, as a father of daughters, it makes me feel protective. Probably more to it than I've had time to look up yet. 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:33
^ little know factette - Tony Kaye played Yes's version of Simon & Garfunkel's America live - he'd left by the time they recorded the studio version for the Atlantic compilation "New Age of Atlantic", the arrangement was Kaye's not Wakeman's.
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:27
The Peter Banks/Tony Kaye example is a good one even though they are each pretty good musicians on their own. 

Tony was the original keyboardist on great songs such as "Starship Trooper", "Yours is no disgrace" and "Perpetual Change". His style of playing is more one of setting the atmosphere rather than flashing virtuosity. I can't disagree with the fact that Wakeman ended being a better fit for the band but Tony did OK during his time with Yes. He is actually better than most people give him credit. I like some of the things he's done with Billy Sherwood who also happens to be very talented. I speak with him from time to time and he is always busy doing a new project. John Wetton's new album being the latest.

As for Peter Banks, I don't know much of what he does these days. I know more than once he tried to start a tour playing the music of Yes from the first album but financials haven't added up on his favour.

Regarding the music produced by various lineups in bands, I hope that the upcoming Yes album is a good one. Like many, I am a bit skeptical about it and cautiously optimistic but, I hope they hit it out of the park. really, is the best thing that could happen to the music we love so much.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

I don't think a fan of the The xx would buy a Rebbeca Black album Ermm
Either my writing skills have dropped another notch or you've misread what I writted.


It's a bit difficult to follow but I think I got it now, sorry. Smile
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:13
Who the hades is Rebecca Black?
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 15:09
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

I don't think a fan of the The xx would buy a Rebbeca Black album Ermm
Either my writing skills have dropped another notch or you've misread what I writted.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 14:57
I don't think a fan of the The xx would buy a Rebbeca Black album Ermm
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 14:35
^ re-recording classics is a toughie - even previous Genesis members (Hackett "Revisited" and D'Virgilio "Rewired") didn't receive unanimous praise from all Genesis fans for doing that so you're in good company.
 
Line-up changes are also a toughie, especially when a "classic" lineup created a "classic" album. You don't read too many people complaining that Peter Banks or Tony Kaye aren't touring with Yes at the moment - I find that "selectiveness" a little puzzling myself, but I guess every one has their favourite "ideal" line up. However, bands with revolving door membership policies like King Crimson or Deep Purple manage to ride over such criticisms - it helps when the later albums equal or surpass their "classic".
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 13:51
I like the way you think. It is quite different from many of the people I read about on these forums. I do find the crowd to be polarising. Actually, I do feel that there is some kind of click within these forums that if you are not a part of, then you are dismissed altogether. I don't frequent this site but from time to time I check in to see what's new. I have always found some resistance to whatever I write. Yes, I agree that this particular thread invites polarising responses. I'm OK with that. 

I don't see Rebecca Black's pocketing $50,000 as immaterial. Mainly because it has nothing to do with her. It has to do with people spending money on mediocre entertainment as a reflection where we are headed. Did I mentioned three "Jackasses" movies? LOL

I learned a whilst back about progressive rock buying audiences on my first album which happened to be a Genesis tribute album. I found out that people either loved it or hated it. Sometimes it didn't even had to do with the music. Just the fact that I "dared" to re-record the sacred anthems. I just wanted to make my own takes on some of the music I loved so much. Steve Hackett liked it, that was good enough for me. But it is very hard for many people to get past the fact that it wasn't Genesis doing Genesis. That also baffles me but what the hell, I moved on anyway. 

When Phil Collins finally bowed out of Genesis, the remaining guys came out with a pretty decent album. "Calling All Stations" may not be in the same vein as "Selling England By The Pound" but musically speaking, it was better than the two preceding albums which had Collins in them. People dismissed it, specially in the States and the band dissolved. I for one, would had enjoyed at least one or two more albums with the last lineup but they couldn't make people get passed the fact that Phil Collins wasn't in Genesis anymore.

Yes is going through some of the same. Will see what happens when their new album comes out in July. Until then, there are many fans berating Chris Squire and Steve Howe for not having Jon Anderson in the band. I bet most of them would shut up if the current lineup would agree to play in their backyard just for beers. I bet they would quickly covert to being fans of the new lineup. What motivates progressive rock fans is actually more complex than what I can put in a few lines. I am still trying to figure it out enough to get some notice (for my music and not for my rants, I got the latter down). LOL
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:58
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

Dean,
You are correct in your assertion. My original posting is based on my frustrations in trying to get noticed. The not-so-obvious point that I was making has more to do with the fact that people will gravitate very quickly towards the silly, the mediocre and the controversial. Like someone pointed out somewhere in this thread, people like things that do not require any mental investment from their part. I understand the reason. It doesn't detract me from thinking that it is somewhat ridiculous. The only way to see that is for one to look at it from an outsider's point of view. For my argument, that will be my point of view. But hey, it is one man's opinion. I'm not trying to compare markets and niches on my posting. I'm making a quick generalisation (and although people hate the idea of generalising, it is the one of the biggest tools used by statistics to get to at least a hypothesis). As a whole, the music industry and how people react to it is changing very fast. With the new availability for technology, people can achieve things they weren't be able to do before. This can be a good thing but also can be a terrible thing. Discerning what's good and what's bad is a matter of opinions. However, being that this is a forum for progressive rock, I thought it would be appropriate to comment from the point of view of a progressive rock artist as well as a listener. I would have thought that there would be more common ground among the people in the forums. It seems as if I was wrong with that assertion.

Forums create instant opportunities to create counter points. Moreover, people get gutsier when they don't have to face their "opponents" in person. I think we all get the jest of it. However, sometimes some people like just to interject for the sake of interjecting. They seem to enjoy just stirring-up the pot to see what happens. I get that too, although it does get on the way of a productive argument.

At the end, I still have all the same thoughts I had when I original posted the thread. I'm still upset that a thirteen year old can sell tons of copies of what it is basically just a silly song (estimates now stand at $50,000). But then again, there are not one but three "Jackasses" movies and they all made money. I still can't comprehend that neither.
There is little common ground among Prog fans because of the diversity of the music - the Who vs Beatles thread of a few years back demonstrated that the division of opinion that was prevalent in the 60s still lives on today. Even with the numbers of people who frequent this forum, and those that regularly buy "Prog" albums, there isn't a common buying profile - it's fragmented and sub-niched. Even Nick D'Virgilio Genesis tribute album sold to a divided market comprising of some of those that like Genesis and D'Virgilio and Spock's Beard and Big Big Train and some of all permutations of those that don't like Genesis or D'Virgilio or Spock's Beard or Big Big Train; but it would not have sold to all. So extrapolating that to any band within the sphere of Prog the people who will be attracted towards it will be those who share a degree of commonality, or those whose interest has been piqued by some related comment or review, but it cannot be taken for granted that anyone will actually buy any of it.
 
I believe the identification of correct markets is totally relevant and pertinent, so Rebbecca Black pocketing $50K is immaterial since it didn't come from the pockets of people who could buy Prog albums. Those people prefer to buy Biffy Clyro, The xx and Funeral For A Friend albums instead. Any increase in popularity of Prog as a genre will come from people who currently buy those "serious" indie albums who can make the connection between those bands and Prog (and vice versa).
 
 
Anyone who has met me in person will attest to the fact that I'm far more gutsier (ie aggressive and demonstrative) IRL than in the rarefied atmosphere of a Prog forum, though equally as opinionated. Since I'm careful in keeping those two populations separate, that's difficult to prove Wink
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:56
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

T,
If all it takes is for you to write more stuff than others to become a special collaborator, then don't worry. I never did LOLAnyway, this is irrelevant. Just writing reviews doesn't make you a Collab. You are very safe as far as I am concern. Safe from what? ConfusedAlso, what my original posting does is to take a look at people's reaction in buying music as they ignore the one type of rock that most people in these forums love (that would be progressive rock). I'm quite sure most people on THIS forum will prefer prog songs to "Friday". I am merely pointing out that people rather listen to some silly song than some decent prog-rock. Who are you to judge what others (and I'm talking about people in and mostly outside of PA) should like? If they like a sh*tty stupid song because it makes them happier than the 20 minute perorations of Jon Anderson about purple clouds, good for them. It doesn't affect you does it?  I'm not in the camp that progressive music has to be for an elitist group of people although many times that's the impression I get from some people in these forums.Some people believe that, true. 

As far as how much the music sales today. Pink Floyd= 200 million albums sold, Genesis = 150 million albums sold, Queen (not full time prog but enough at the beginning)= 300 million albums sold, Jethro Tull= 60 million albums sold, ELO= 50 million albums sold, Rush 40 million, etc. Those numbers can't be touched by today's prog-bands. Their music might be excellent but the record sales are very dim in comparison. All those bands have been selling records since the 60's... How can you expect a band formed in 2000 to have sold the same? Confused Also, the music industry is much different today. The rather gigantic availability of options dilutes the market for music. In the past, people didn't have that many outlets and music to choose from. Now everything is more dispersed. 

At any rate, I think we are getting of the subject here. I wrote the thread to touch various points but the general issue had to do with people opting to buy mediocrity as opposed to something that they may enjoy much more in the long run. It depends on the people. Some won't. Some do. What's the problem? This whole thing of "I contribute more than you'll ever do" is just silly. I don't care much for that.I know is silly but you're the one who attacked my Collab status weren't you? 

Enjoy your Friday. At least more than my Saturday and my Sunday that comes afterwards because I work... Unhappy
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leonalvarado View Drop Down
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:46
T,
If all it takes is for you to write more stuff than others to become a special collaborator, then don't worry. You are very safe as far as I am concern. Also, what my original posting does is to take a look at people's reaction in buying music as they ignore the one type of rock that most people in these forums love (that would be progressive rock). I am merely pointing out that people rather listen to some silly song than some decent prog-rock. I'm not in the camp that progressive music has to be for an elitist group of people although many times that's the impression I get from some people in these forums.

As far as how much the music sales today. Pink Floyd= 200 million albums sold, Genesis = 150 million albums sold, Queen (not full time prog but enough at the beginning)= 300 million albums sold, Jethro Tull= 60 million albums sold, ELO= 50 million albums sold, Rush 40 million, etc. Those numbers can't be touched by today's prog-bands. Their music might be excellent but the record sales are very dim in comparison.

At any rate, I think we are getting of the subject here. I wrote the thread to touch various points but the general issue had to do with people opting to buy mediocrity as opposed to something that they may enjoy much more in the long run. This whole thing of "I contribute more than you'll ever do" is just silly. I don't care much for that.

Enjoy your Friday.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:41
Fun, fun, think about fun
You know what it is
I got this, you got this
My friend is by my right, ay
I got this, you got this
Now you know it"

You are a fail if you fail to understand the magic, the art behind these lyrics...


Edited by The T - April 01 2011 at 12:42
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:39
You don't like a bit of rhetoric retort, I gather LOL

Anyways it's friday, friday and I'm going out to buy The King Of Limbs Rebecca Black, see ya in the Shred!
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:34
Please don't think "we" applies to us all.... We here in PA like music, that's all we can say its the same about all of us. 

We will find somebody... Tongue
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:31
Prog fans are cheap - look at all the prog festivals and labels that are closing down. Wink Yeah, we'll go and see it on YouTube, but not buy it. 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:29
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

harmonium, you hit it in the head with "internet phenomenon". The somewhat disturbing thing is that it does start by acknowledging how silly her music is. That's all fine. Common sense would dictate that because of that there would be some buzz created around it. Now, the whole thing is available for all to see and hear on You Tube. So, do people need to go somewhere and pay to download this thing? That's the phenomena right there. I'm just saying.


No - the phenomena is that we poke fun at her and use the "meme" in as many situations as possible until it gets really tired. I can vouch that no PA member will go and buy the song.

It costs 0.99 cents, to have a laugh with somebody might be worth more than other stuff for some people. I wouldn't vouch anything because I don't like to say that all prog fans are so predictable and repetitive. We are as liable to be stupid or make stupid decisions or like stupid things as much as any other guy. 
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:26
Originally posted by leonalvarado leonalvarado wrote:

harmonium, you hit it in the head with "internet phenomenon". The somewhat disturbing thing is that it does start by acknowledging how silly her music is. That's all fine. Common sense would dictate that because of that there would be some buzz created around it. Now, the whole thing is available for all to see and hear on You Tube. So, do people need to go somewhere and pay to download this thing? That's the phenomena right there. I'm just saying.


No - the phenomena is that we poke fun at her and use the "meme" in as many situations as possible until it gets really tired. I can vouch that no PA member will go and buy the song.
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Points: 177 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2011 at 12:23
harmonium, you hit it in the head with "internet phenomenon". The somewhat disturbing thing is that it does start by acknowledging how silly her music is. That's all fine. Common sense would dictate that because of that there would be some buzz created around it. Now, the whole thing is available for all to see and hear on You Tube. So, do people need to go somewhere and pay to download this thing? That's the phenomena right there. I'm just saying.
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