Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all. Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
Posted: April 06 2011 at 11:31
DanthraX wrote:
Tough decision, two of my favorite albums in the whole prog catalogue, but Godbluff has something so indescribable that amaze me, from the moment Undercover Man starts with it's "here at the glass" until Sleepwalkers fades... I even get sad when the record is over jajaja...
I'm so happy I discovered VdGG a couple of years ago, thanks to PA, so thank you all who voted 4 or 5 stars for Godbluff!
Yes, a very interesting and intricate item in the VDGG catalog. I'm still stumped though on how it can be compared to 'Cryme. Apples and oranges again, I'm afraid.
Joined: May 30 2010
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Posted: April 05 2011 at 23:29
Tough decision, two of my favorite albums in the whole prog catalogue, but Godbluff has something so indescribable that amaze me, from the moment Undercover Man starts with it's "here at the glass" until Sleepwalkers fades... I even get sad when the record is over jajaja...
I'm so happy I discovered VdGG a couple of years ago, thanks to PA, so thank you all who voted 4 or 5 stars for Godbluff!
Joined: March 27 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 282
Posted: April 03 2011 at 12:14
Genesis is by far a best band than VDGG for me, but Nursery Cryme is their weakest album from the Gabriel-era (even if it is damn good) and Godbluff is the best VDGG album with Pawn Hearts, so I'd say Godbluff. However, there isn't a single song in Godbluff that is close to The Musical Box. This is such a masterpiece and even SUpper's Ready isn't by far better than it.
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
Posted: April 03 2011 at 05:58
zachfive wrote:
Horizons wrote:
I still can't get into Van der Graaf, sorry.
Are you apologizing to the people who like VDGG? Because no apology is necessary, it does not effect me.
If you are, however, saying that you are sorry for yourself because you can't get into VDGG well then I too am sorry for you...
Your perception of what music is, and your appreciation of the music, changes when you listen to poets like Peter, or Roy Harper ... because for them it is not the music dictating the lyrics (a la top ten and rock'n'roll and most prog), but the other way around ... the instruments are there to augment the sentence or the wording.
Best thing ever said on this site. Mr. Hammill is truly amazing, and for those who "can't get into" his or VDGG works are at a true loss, at least that is my opinion...
The problem many people have with VdGG is that Peter Hammill sings the lyrics as if he is living through them, with all the emotions that are in it, and since the emotions are extreme so is his singing, and he is being accompanied by the band in an appropriate matter for that, which often leads to disharmonious sounds. I love that kind of singing Hammill did not invent it, by the way; the Swedish born German actress Zarah Leander dd that too in the 30s and 40s of the last century.
Two decades later another great German actress and singer, Hildegard Knef, did the same:
The great Ella Fitzgerald, by the way, once mentioned that she wished she could sing like Hildegard Knef; she was a great admirer of her.
So you see Hammill is by far not the inventor of this kind of singing.
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3247
Posted: April 02 2011 at 19:09
Zargus wrote:
Godbluff is a perfect album, and it deserves its high rating. Nursery cryme is not a perfect album genesis at that time hadent perfected thire songwritng skills, but its very good, but i yust feel its lacking in many things. personaly i feel it whuld have been more fair to compere Godbluff and SEBTP, and Nursery Cryme and the least we can do or H to he. Since they are more similar in production and sound and not yet perfect songwritng. Anyway my vote ofc goes to Godbluff one of my favorit prog albums.
You just nailed it for me. If the comparison was SEBTP against Godbluff I'd award it to SEBTP but takes nothing away from Godbluff.
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
Posted: April 02 2011 at 18:46
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
[
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, VdGG, so I get it)!
Not totally Bucka:
"But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!"
Well, I see your point. To be honest, I think it is something akin to ridiculous (in a way that saying I don't like Fellni's films because I like decadance, humor, and grotesque imagery is ridiculous since it's all in there), but 'ridiculous' is probably too strong a word and more inflammatory than I intended.
You were partially right, took my Godbluff copy and listened it several repeatedly for the first time in two decades, and enjoyed it, much better than Pawn Hears and rated it with 4 stars (really 3.5).
Still I believe that NC is superior and by far.
Iván
You have allso writen a rewive for H to he and given it 4 stars i know, so it seems you like VdGG after all, hehe.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: April 02 2011 at 15:04
bucka001 wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
[
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, VdGG, so I get it)!
Not totally Bucka:
"But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!"
Well, I see your point. To be honest, I think it is something akin to ridiculous (in a way that saying I don't like Fellni's films because I like decadance, humor, and grotesque imagery is ridiculous since it's all in there), but 'ridiculous' is probably too strong a word and more inflammatory than I intended.
You were partially right, took my Godbluff copy and listened it several repeatedly for the first time in two decades, and enjoyed it, much better than Pawn Hears and rated it with 4 stars (really 3.5).
Joined: November 13 2005
Location: Kitsap WA
Status: Offline
Points: 770
Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:53
Horizons wrote:
I still can't get into Van der Graaf, sorry.
Are you apologizing to the people who like VDGG? Because no apology is necessary, it does not effect me.
If you are, however, saying that you are sorry for yourself because you can't get into VDGG well then I too am sorry for you...
Your perception of what music is, and your appreciation of the music, changes when you listen to poets like Peter, or Roy Harper ... because for them it is not the music dictating the lyrics (a la top ten and rock'n'roll and most prog), but the other way around ... the instruments are there to augment the sentence or the wording.
Best thing ever said on this site. Mr. Hammill is truly amazing, and for those who "can't get into" his or VDGG works are at a true loss, at least that is my opinion...
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:49
Don't worry Bucka, we all use strong terms that later I repent.
Now, I like complex elaborate music with a strong melody music, but I also need that X ingredient to make it perfect to my OWN PERSONAL TASTE, I find that ingredient in early Genesis and not in VDGG.
There's also an issue, even when Hammill is a great lyricist, I find .Genesis lyrics much more dramatic, and I like that.
BTW: I like and grotesque imagery but my favourite Fellini movie is "Il Viteloni", precisely the only one that escapes to those standards. Being that he goes too far in movies like Rome and Satiricon
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:40
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
[
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, VdGG, so I get it)!
Not totally Bucka:
"But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!"
Well, I see your point. To be honest, I think it is something akin to ridiculous (in a way that saying I don't like Fellni's films because I like decadance, humor, and grotesque imagery is ridiculous since it's all in there), but 'ridiculous' is probably too strong a word and more inflammatory than I intended.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:38
And I insist, I find "Undercover Man" extremely similar to parts to Space Oddity released in 1969 while Godbluff was released in 1975, so yes, I still believe Godbluff it's musically derivative from early Bowie..At least that's my impression.
Both Bowie and VDGG started releasing albums in 1969 and there's no connection between Space Oddity and Aerosol Grey Machine
Just a comment, I love Paul Whitehead's covers, but everything is so personal, that I find Trespass much more solid than any other Genesis cover independently of what Paul Whitehead thinks or likes, it's extremely beautiful.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:26
bucka001 wrote:
[
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, VdGG, so I get it)!
Not totally Bucka:
"But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!"
I don't think its' ridiculous to compare what for me is the best song ever released with Goldbluff, even if Nursery Cryme was formed by The Musical Box and 7 other songs, still I would go with Nursery Cryme..
But I believe that at east Hogweed, Harold the Barrel and Fountain of Salmacis are also masterpieces.
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:25
...oh, and I also interviewed John Anthony at length (who produced Nursery Cryme and several VdGG/Hammill albums). File this post in the shameless book plug department!
Paul Whitehead has been a dear friend of mine for several years. I can say that one thing Nursery Cryme has going for it (among many other things, definitely a good album) is that it's Paul's favorite album cover that he's ever worked on.
I interviewed Paul initially several years ago, and he spoke about Genesis, VdGG, and several other things. Check it out:
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:03
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Please Bucka001, you are new here (At least in posts), but if you spent more time in the forum, you would ALREADY KNOW I NEVER TALK ABOUT AN ALBUM I HAVEN'T HEARD OR NOT FAMILIAR WITH, so please, don't make those guesses again, because they are untrue.
I don't know how old are you or how long you listen Prog (not important either), but I'm on this for exactly 34 years, and in this time i heard all the most important classic Prog bands and in most of the cases and even when I don't like most of their music, have all their albums, because all of them have the touch of the genius, and I respect that.
No it doesn't, a brainwashed person doesn't take decisions for himself, but because he/she has been programmed to do so.
In my case I made an informed decision, for example, I'm listening "The Udercover Man", and even when it's elaborate and well crafted, there0's something missing IMO, that ingredient that separetes the good from the great, Yes is dramatic but I believe too derivative of Bowie) and I could give an opinion about each and every song, but I don't need to justify me.
I believe that The Musical Box is the best song ever released by a Progressive Rock band, and even when this is a subjective decision, I believe there are reasons that justify that opinion.
Iván
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, and I also stated that the person who used the term "brainwashing" went a bit over the top with that. And the reason I thought you may not be familiar with the Godbluff album is becuase 1) You admit you don't like VdGG (so why would you take the time to really know a random album of theirs; in the same way, I've heard enough Dream Theater to know that I don't like them, but I can't tell you stuff about specific albums) and, 2) I asked you several posts ago about specific tunes on Godbluff and you didn't reply, although you've replied to other people's posts since then.
You're wrong about me being new here. I've posted quite a bit for two or three years now (maybe more). So you made a wrong assumption about that. If you've been listening to prog for 34 years, you're probably younger than me (I remember Tarkus and Trilogy and Yessongs, etc, when they came out; I started being hip to prog around '72/'73). I also wrote a book on VdGG and interviewed Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Armando Gallo (Genesis biographer), and Paul Whitehead (a close friend, who painted covers for both Genesis and VdGG).
And Undercover Man is not derivative of Bowie. It may sound like Bowie (I can understand that interpretation), but it's the other way around as far as who's being derivative. For a long time it's been known that Bowie is a Hammill fan and has been influenced by him, as has Gabriel who has stated "The one artist I'd like to base my career around is Peter Hammill."
Not that any of that should make you like Godbluff... it's totally fine that you don't (many of my own friends can't stand VdGG, so I get it)!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.270 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Nursery Cryme VS Godbluff
Topic Options
DanthraX wrote:
Being that he goes too far in movies like Rome and Satiricon