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moshkito 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18058
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 Posted: March 18 2011 at 13:14 |
 lazland wrote:
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Erm...the "upper classes", as you put it, had very little to do with the music business here. ...
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Laz ... check out on the Internet the top ten worst business decisions ever made ... and it was an "upper" class, or the equivalent of a John Snagg that were "controlling" a lot of things ... and music was one of those things that can't get anywhere if it is not heard ... you can smuggle a snap picture of someone's painting, or a book or two, or a script ... but you can't do that too well with music. And this was evident in Portugal and Spain (for example) during their days under a Fascist dictatorship!
And for that matter, the BBC is still holding out on many things relating to the Goons, and a lot more music as well .. not to mention Beatles' stuff like the Christmans Shows (7 of them) for crying out loud ... if that is not "hiding", or "controlling", or making a call on what the "masses" should or should not get ... I don't know what is! I kinda look at the BeebbeebSee as the same way, thanks to Spike Milligan!
It's been estimated by Mr. Nobody Jr. that the BBC collection of music is bigger than the Vatican's porn collection by a factor of 100 or so!
The inevitable question is ... how to get around those interests and get some things done and accomplished ... and we do not have enough "Roy's" in this world to get it done with ... (sorry Phillip K. Dick for the loose cannon!) ... and on top of it, many of us here are just the same thing ... supporting the top ten establishment mentality!
Progressive is over and dead, and the fans? ... just another dollar!
Edited by moshkito - March 18 2011 at 13:16
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: March 18 2011 at 09:35 |
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Well a lot of bands owe me train fare. I lived in the country and had to take the train into the big city where all the record shops were when I was a kid. So they owe me train fare.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29402
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Posted: March 18 2011 at 02:29 |
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Actually ELP owes me $30 for such a shambolic album as 'In The Hot Seat'... had to post that. |
The depression it caused me when I first heard it and the crashing horrible realisation that my heroes had nothing left in the artistic bank greatly overshadowed any actual monetary loss as far as I was concerned |
That is hardly fair. They couldn't make the album they wanted too. Their music was raped and brutalised by the company and the producer. They don't even play on all of it. |
Really not the point though. You take anything that is put out at face value. Victory records was in immenent danger of collapse and duly fell over after this album was released. The whole album (not just parts of it) is awfull. Even allowing for the record company putting them into a position they didn't wanted to be in its still inexcusably lacking in any decent ideas or songs.
Edited by richardh - March 18 2011 at 02:30
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popski3125
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 13 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: March 18 2011 at 01:01 |
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VDGG?
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 20:47 |
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No artist does. They did what they would have been doing anyway, the fans liked it. It's the fans wanting more
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 18:19 |
richardh wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Actually ELP owes me $30 for such a shambolic album as 'In The Hot Seat'... had to post that. |
The depression it caused me when I first heard it and the crashing horrible realisation that my heroes had nothing left in the artistic bank greatly overshadowed any actual monetary loss as far as I was concerned |
That is hardly fair. They couldn't make the album they wanted too. Their music was raped and brutalised by the company and the producer. They don't even play on all of it.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 18:17 |
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Moshkitp seems to be on first name terms with every musician. Patrick indeed!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 18:13 |
moshkito wrote:
and that trying to get the finances audited on the Moody Blues at the time is impossible ... which means that you know where the music business really screwed a lot of people and bands! And in England, no one audits the upper classes! On anything! |
The Moody Blues were 6 working class lads, mostly from Birmingham (Hayward comes from Swindon, but he was a late arrival).
As a public limited company auditing them is simple enough and is required by law for tax purposes.
moshkito wrote:
Genesis is not worth seeing again unless it has Peter with them, and Steve has requested that Peter be a part of it ... and you can hear it now ... Can you tell me where my country lies ... said the unicorn to the .... yeah ... I'm ready for that and probably would fly to London and camp at Dean's back yard! |
1. I'm not in London
2. I don't have a back "yard".
3. The piece of land at the back of my house is called "Hampshire".
Edited by Dean - March 17 2011 at 18:13
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What?
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29402
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 16:20 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Actually ELP owes me $30 for such a shambolic album as 'In The Hot Seat'... had to post that. |
The depression it caused me when I first heard it and the crashing horrible realisation that my heroes had nothing left in the artistic bank greatly overshadowed any actual monetary loss as far as I was concerned
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13792
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:50 |
freyacat wrote:
The trouble is, no amount of strong feelings on the part of fans can help an artist make good music.
I've struggled for years trying to understand why none of the music being produced in the present can measure up to those magical moments of discovery in the 70's. When I was growing up, I found that the best music had been made a decade before I started listening.
But I think I have to accept that that time was special - a confluence of culture, technology, and history that allowed for some very special music to be made. You can't force something like that, or repeat it. I think Bill Bruford makes an important insight in his autobiography when he says there is just too much music being made right now, and our Ipods are full. It's a burgeoning industry churning out huge volumes of product with nothing to say.
I will continue to revere the progressive rock masterpieces, and even enjoy the continued efforts of progressive musicians. But I think that the next great wave of artistic innovation may not even be in the field of music. We must keep our eyes and ears open for that which is true.
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Why don't you stick around? You will find on the site a pile of great innovative music being produced and released right here and now.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13792
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:49 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
which means that you know where the music business really screwed a lot of people and bands! And in England, no one audits the upper classes! On anything!
... yeah ... I want to throw eggs at The Eagles no matter how good they sound! And Fleetwood Mac, too! ... for these two represented the commercial side that hurt the progressive music more than anything else! |
Erm...the "upper classes", as you put it, had very little to do with the music business here.
I would accuse The Eagles of many things, and I really loved Fleetwood Mac, but being punk is certainly not one of them.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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freyacat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 146
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:45 |
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The trouble is, no amount of strong feelings on the part of fans can help an artist make good music.
I've struggled for years trying to understand why none of the music being produced in the present can measure up to those magical moments of discovery in the 70's. When I was growing up, I found that the best music had been made a decade before I started listening.
But I think I have to accept that that time was special - a confluence of culture, technology, and history that allowed for some very special music to be made. You can't force something like that, or repeat it. I think Bill Bruford makes an important insight in his autobiography when he says there is just too much music being made right now, and our Ipods are full. It's a burgeoning industry churning out huge volumes of product with nothing to say.
I will continue to revere the progressive rock masterpieces, and even enjoy the continued efforts of progressive musicians. But I think that the next great wave of artistic innovation may not even be in the field of music. We must keep our eyes and ears open for that which is true.
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sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18058
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:38 |
Hi,
I don't know ... I think that yesterday's behemoths are long gone and dead.
I think that Patrick would love to do this, but others might not, and in the end, the story goes that Patrick got ripped off, and fired when he asked for his paycheck, and in the end, his making the music even more electronic, was not valuable to the people in the band at the time. Later on, The Moody Blues did the same thing to Patrick and I remember reading that the court case was still going, and that trying to get the finances audited on the Moody Blues at the time is impossible ... which means that you know where the music business really screwed a lot of people and bands! And in England, no one audits the upper classes! On anything!
I would not pay to see Yes again with Jon and Rick and Tales of Topographic Oceans ... I really think their time is long gone, and they have "lost" it. And Rick still goes around trashing Tales ... which bugs me a lot and I find it really sad, as it is a massive piece of composition, and he was a part of it. I sincerely hope that one day he apologizes and plays it again, one last time ... and that it helps clear his feelings towards some of his mates that helped put him on the map!
Genesis is not worth seeing again unless it has Peter with them, and Steve has requested that Peter be a part of it ... and you can hear it now ... Can you tell me where my country lies ... said the unicorn to the .... yeah ... I'm ready for that and probably would fly to London and camp at Dean's back yard!
All in all ... I think the time is over ... what has happened has happened, and you can not get back the glory that things were before the tsunami ... all you can get is a few tears, and some sadness ... for things that are gone ... and to recapture that feeling and energy, is something that is best relegated to your imagination and dreams, than a reality ... most of which is so sad and pathetic that ... yeah ... I want to throw eggs at The Eagles no matter how good they sound! And Fleetwood Mac, too! ... for these two represented the commercial side that hurt the progressive music more than anything else!
I don't think they owe us anything, anymore than I owe them anything. And as Dean stated, the transaction was complete. AND, in those days we did not have the freebies over the internet to find out what things sounded like either!
Edited by moshkito - March 18 2011 at 13:04
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13792
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:12 |
topographicbroadways wrote:
^ I thought the ELP show was great as a farewell, they certainly weren't as good but the amazing atmosphere of the show alone made it worth it, and the Pictures at an Exhibition finale was a moment that will certainly stay with me |
And that, of course, makes it great. I thought it was awful, and you loved it, such is the deeply personal experience of music. The fact that I thought it was awful does not make it so. The fact that you loved it and derived such pleasure from it does make it great, in my opinion, especially as far as the band are concerned.
It would be a bloody dull world if we all thought the same 
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:07 |
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^ I thought the ELP show was great as a farewell, they certainly weren't as good but the amazing atmosphere of the show alone made it worth it, and the Pictures at an Exhibition finale was a moment that will certainly stay with me
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13792
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 15:04 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Pink Floyd @ Live 8, poor? 
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Yes, I thought they were exceptional as well, and it wasn't just the nostalgia or atmosphere of the day either.
Perhaps they were so good because they haven't spent years together trundling out the same old tours and material (yes, I know that they have done tracks as solo artists, but I think that is different). Others have mentioned Rush, who still turn out excellent new material. Ditto Van Der Graaf. Marillion, my idols, are still making challenging new music.
Yes, on the other hand, have simply churned out reunion tour after reunion tour, without so much as a quaver of new music. Worse, they have become a parody in my opinion, a sort of tribute to a tribute band.
I had the pleasure and privilege of seeing the Six Of The Best Genesis/Gabriel reunion gig in 1982. It was a one off, and I personally feel that it should be left at that. It would seem that Gabriel agrees. There, by the way, is another artist who doesn't simply rest on his laurels, but only tours when he has new material to present (albeit only every 15 years or so  ).
An exception to the point I made about Floyd above were ELP last year. Now there's a band who should never have been persuaded.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 14:30 |
Pink Floyd @ Live 8, poor?
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17965
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 14:25 |
Nah don't owe me anything......strictly talking about tours (as that was the OP question). Its my issue that I did not get a chance to see Genesis back in the day or Yes, Pink Floyd. For whatever reason I was not in the right place at the right time.
Over the past 10yrs though I have been changing that, going to as many shows as I can. I don't know what kind of show Yes would put on with the "old members"?
Would it come to happen, I would only hope it would be half as good as what Rush have been doing the past 10yrs on tour.....That is one group that gives you one hell of a show for the price of tickets today.
...and Iron Maiden too
Edited by Catcher10 - March 17 2011 at 14:26
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 14:16 |
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...and we don't owe them anything either. They got paid, we got the goods, transaction complete.
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What?
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: March 17 2011 at 12:57 |
twosteves wrote:
do these bands owe it to the fans to occasionally give them what they want? |
No.
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