Why were Asia rubbish?

kirklott wrote: Salmacis72 wrote: Geffen tired to lure back Wetton, but Wetton would only come back if Howe left. Really? Why is that? Howe and Wetton didn't get along. They were the first two in the band, and got along well at first, but later a power struggle emerged between the two as to who was the group's leader. Howe had the stronger resume, but Wetton wrote more of Asia's hits. Wetton told Geffen Records he would return to Asia (after Alpha, before Astra) on the condition that Howe left. You'll note the orignal Asia has gotten back together - or tried - at least three times (late 80s, early 90s, late 90s), but only Downes-Palmer-Wetton, always without Howe.

In Asia`s official website, I remember that there is/was a section dedicated to their official autobiographical book. They quote Howe saying about his departure of Asia: "John returned to the band, and we started to rehearse new songs for a new album. Everything was going right...but out of the blue, he said to me that he didn`t want to work with me again. So I left the band".

Wetton is also quoted, saying: "We were in Asia. Me, the protagonist, and Steve, the antagonist".

Geffen tired to lure back Wetton, but Wetton would only come back if Howe left.

Really? Why is that?

If the question had been "why didn't Asia make prog albums", that would have been a reasonable question.

The one thing they were not though was "crap". The band members were all highly talented, and while with Asia they made high quality music in the style they chose to adopt. It is of course a matter of opinion as to whether or not you enjoy that music.

To be honest, I actually quite like Asia. But, I've never ever considered them a Prog band. In fact, when listening to them, what they COULD have done doesn't really bother me. Their stuff is certainly better than what Genesis were turning out at the time.
Prog was an endangered species at this time! (Marillion kept it going though)

fingers wrote: BTW, I think Carl's drumming took a really bad downhill turn from the time he joined Asia on. The 2nd stint with ELP was nothing to write home about, and I remember being particularly disappointed after seeing the Black Moon tour.   Carl played out of time, and Emo was slopply because he was obviously drunk on stage.

Well I saw them at The Bristol Colston Hall on the Black Moon tour and they were as tight as I could have hoped for,no probs at all and Emo was certainly not drunk.

Edited by richardh

Think about this.

Not only did Palmer leave ELP for Asia, but then he probably convinced Emerson into doing "3".
(Of course, does it surprise anybody in knowing that 3 were another band on Geffen's label??
I believe GTR was another Geffen mid 80's creation too!)

As bad as Asia was, 3 was even worse.    I was a huge ELP fanboy back in those days, and yet I probably listened to "The Power of 3" twice.    The 2nd listen was just to make sure that it really was that bad.

BTW, I think Carl's drumming took a really bad downhill turn from the time he joined Asia on.
The 2nd stint with ELP was nothing to write home about, and I remember being particularly disappointed after seeing the Black Moon tour.   Carl played out of time, and Emo was slopply because he was obviously drunk on stage.

Cozy Powell wasn't great in the studio, but live he really complemented Emo's playing.   I remember hearing some new life breathed into Tarkus with some real solid double bass drum playing.    Cozy laid down a solid groove, and let Emo run with it.

kirklott wrote: Guillermo wrote: About the cancelation of the last tour of Genesis 1997-98: the "Calling all stations" album was successful in Europe, but not in the U.S. In the U.S., they only reached the #54 in the charts. Without Collins, and with a new album which was "dark" from start to finish, without "real" singles ("Congo" and the video for this song were also "dark"), they were finished, at least for the U.S. radio. This had nothing to do with the album being dark, but rather the fact that Genesis had totally lost their fan base: the scr*wed over their old fans, and their new fans, well they were busy picking up kids from soccer games and couldn't care less. Yes, in contrast, at least made some proggy efforts like ABWH, Talk, Keys, etc., and even had proggy tracks like "I'm Running" on bad albums like Big Generator. Genesis in contrast just went pure pop, and they completely lost their 70s audience. And that's what Asia did from minute one. I think they just shocked so many fans, and immediately lost any of their fans from their 70s bands. I mean, did you know Asia is touring Europe, Latin America and the USA this year? Did you know? Do you care? No, nobody knows because the loyalty isn't there. And they are playing in places like barbeque restaurants. I'm not kidding. In contrast, I'm flying to FOUR of the Howe/Squire/White concerts because I'm loyal. If Yes had gone pure pop, and Asia or Genesis loyal to their old fans, it would be the other way around.

"Take it or leave it". Musicians need changes. They need to survive. Their job is making music. I liked King Crimson`s albums from 1969 until 1974. I bought "Beat", I was disappointed,so after that  I never bought their new albums with Adrian Belew. YES became commercial, I liked thier Pop albums, so I bought them. Genesis became commercial, I liked some of their albums, so I carried on buying them. It`s just personal taste.

I think that Genesis lost their fans in the U.S. because many years passed without releasing new albums (between 1992 and 1997, a long time!), and also because Collins, who was very popular in the U.S., left the band. Yes, there was also a 5 year hiatus between "Invisible Touch" and "We Can`t  Dance", but the members of Genesis released during that time solo projects which were successful. Collins still has some success in the U.S. as soloist.  Ray Wilson wasn`t liked as the new singer. The new album was weak, "Dark", monotonous, depressing. Also times changed: the mid 90s music was very different to the 80s music.

YES fully returned to the Prog style in 1995 when Wakeman and Howe rejoined the band. "Talk" was a mixture of Pop with Prog, particularly in the "Talk" long song. But this album wasn`t as successful as the other albums in which Trevor Rabin participated.

Yes, I know that Asia came to my country. I wasn`t interested to see them in concert. I`m not interested in the Downes/Payne & Co. line-ups. They should have changed the name  of the band since the start of the "Downes/Payne band".

I went to see YES playing concerts 3 times here in my country. In one of those concerts (1999), they only had the auditorium in  half of the capacity. They were not promoted for that concert. I knew about that concert 10 days before.

Edited by Guillermo

raindance wrote: I bet your way off base with this remark. Writing a hit single that was massive worldwide must have set Wetton up financially for life. Just about every rock compilation released either includes 'Heat Of The Moment' or 'Only Time Will Tell'. I also still hear these songs played on the radio on an almost daily basis. Also, didn't the Simpsons use 'Heat Of The Moment' in an episode. I also know it's been used in quite a few film soundtracks. I bet Wetton is living a life of luxury on royalties alone just on the back of 'Heat Of The Moment'.

No, you're probably wrong. After a hit, musicians usually live high on the hog, and when their career declines, they can't sustain their lifestyle. So they often sell off their publishing catalogue. I'll bet you money Wetton/Downes did this in the second half of the 80s.

I bet Wetton and Downes today live more modestly than many members of this forum. I mean, are you aware that a year or two ago Downes and his new Asia partner, John Payne, did a living room tour of the USA? If you wrote a modest check, they would play anywhere you wanted, like at your church or picnic or the opening of a used car dealership.

Edited by kirklott

Biggles wrote: Well, Wetton had had a mind to make a pop-oriented record for a while. That's pretty much why UK broke up; Jobson and Wetton wanted pop, Bruford and Holdsworth wanted fusion/prog.

That's an odd and clearly incorrect comment. UK's second album - after Bruford and Holdsworth left - was proggier than the first. Longer tracks, more soloing, more extreme musicianship.

UK broke up because of Jobson and Wetton didn't get along.

richardh wrote: The Asia bashing on this thread is totally out of order!

Nonsense.

Fine, so Asia wanted to maximize income and boost their financial protfolio. That was their perogative.

But couldn't they have thrown their loyal old fans a bone, like one - at least one - 10-minute epic? They could have had 7 pop songs, and 1 true prog track for the old fans. But they didn't, cause they knew we would be there with wallets open no matter what.

I still remember the painful disappointment. I had told friends for months about this upcoming incredible band, Asia. I ran out the day the album came out. Great Roger Dean cover! I invited over all my friends for a listening party. And from the opening chords of Heat of the Moment, I knew something was horribly, horribly wrong. My friends left the party early, one by one, shaking their heads. I was humiliated.

I had already bought tickets for three different concerts on Asia's first two tour, because they went on sale before the album came out. I immediately dumped tickets for two of the shows, and went to one - in San Diego - hoping they would play some old tracks. No dice. Instead they played a new track "The Smile Has Left Your Eyes" which was even worse and sounded like BARRY MANILOW!!!

The bashing is very very much in order. And they got what they deserved. Wetton and Downes were ruined, Palmer enjoyed a few minutes back on the world stage, and only Howe got out alive - and he's lucky.