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sukmytoe 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: March 18 2013 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 291 |
 Posted: March 27 2013 at 18:00 |
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As I recall DavetheSlave got quite heated about the subject although he didn't articulate his reasons for wanting Stratovarius here well enough. I know him personally but no, I'm not him. What's your take on the Strat subject? |
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aapatsos
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 11 2005 Location: Manchester, UK Status: Offline Points: 9226 |
Posted: March 27 2013 at 17:54 |
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No single member of the past prog metal teams has given a positive vote for their inclusion, I hope this explains some things
http://progfreak.com/Stratovarius-52034.html?path=pa/pm Yes, they can play some good neo-classical power metal at times, some slow melodic power metal with great keyboards at times but they are not a progressive metal band |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66588 |
Posted: March 27 2013 at 17:50 |
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Are you DavetheSlave reincarnated?
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sukmytoe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 18 2013 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 291 |
Posted: March 27 2013 at 17:36 |
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"Stratovarius has become one of the most respected Progressive-Metal or Power-Metal bands in Europe. Their recent Elements Pt.1 has some of the richest sounds in today's Metal, and Elements Pt.2 is due for release in early November. Senior Sea Of Tranquility writer Duncan Glenday recently held a conversation with Stratovarius's keyboard wizard Jens Johansson, who has also worked with Yngwie Malmsteen, Dio, Arjen Anthony Lucassen, and Mastermind. We asked Jens about his background, Stratovarius's creative process, and the new album"
Quoted from the Sea of Tranquility website.
"One of the best prog. metal albums I have heard - 85%"quote from the Metal Archives website relating to Stratovarius's Infinite album. I could probably find a 100 references in ten minutes to Stratovarius being regarded as prog if I sifted the net. How is it that the feeling here is that Strat aren't prog when the almost universal feeling elsewhere is that they are? I've heard the arguments here over time and those arguments hold no weight with me whatsoever. The members of PA must have a large percentage of believers in my argument that Stratovarius should be represented here. Kamelot are more proggy than Strat? Where does that thinking come from?
I could post plenty of links to youtube of Stratovarius showing the ingrediants that we here say make up prog music but the exercise would be pointless as all it takes is a serious listen to their music and albums. I dare anyone to tell me that the track Destiny is not prog music because if I hear that I'm going to question the person who states that regarding his feeling for what prog music is. Destiny is by far not the only example in their discography that I could point to but it is an example.
My feeling is that new folk joining this site may never get to hear or know Stratovarius as they are highly influenced by this (very good in most ways) website which is an absolute shame as Strat's music is both stunning and very uplifting aside from fully falling into the prog category of metal music. I get that those who love Opeth wouldn't go for Strat - they are very different sides of the musical coin - Strat being uplifting and as melodic as all hell.
Sorry to those that my attempt to revive this subject may upset
 but this thing is something that I will not give up on. |
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: June 13 2011 at 10:00 |
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Part of the sites evolution.....all things will pass
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: June 13 2011 at 09:37 |
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I've said it a number of times, but I have always supported this band's admission.
I think though they were given very fair consideration for inclusion, the matter eventually ending up with the site owner. That's quite unusual, most decisions are taken without the need to involve M@x.
Given all this, I think we have to accept that they have been fully considered and move on.
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 492 |
Posted: June 13 2011 at 06:02 |
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I didn't see this set of posts when it was entertained in Feb / March but I have to tell you Daggor that it is a battle that you cannot win.
When I first started with my love of music there was no such term as "prog" relating to music. All the music that I loved was placed in a category called "underground" and I remember listening through headphones to and old valve radio to a radio station called "radio Nederlands" on Sunday nights where for two hours they put me into music bliss by playing "underground" music. I was around 14 years old at the time and I had discovered the magical thing that is prog music. I watched (or rather listened) as prog was born.
I am in agreement with most of what happens here on prog archives and I have found it to be a wonderful resource relating to the kind of music that I love. I've only been a member for a few years but I watched the site grow from inception and I have immense respect for many of the reviewers and the admin here relating to their knowlege of music.
I entered the Stratovarius fray around two years ago and I must say that I found the experience to be a painful one and in many ways a humiliating one as I was severely attacked over my insistance that Strat is a prog band irrespective of the feelings of some people here.
I watched prog music form and grow, I have a music collection that if I began to play it back to back today I would be dead before the last track played. I personally know a few "prog" artists on a friendly basis - all meaning only that I do feel that I have some idea what I'm on about relating to music.
For anyone to state that Stratovarius is not progressive relating to music is for them to state that they either haven't heard much of Strats music, that they do have a dislike for progressive symphonic (or power) metal, or that they have some other bias relating to Stratovarius.
Anyway - nuff said - I do not want to be placed in the same situation as I was once in here as I walked away from that not wanting to ever come back, such was the level of the attack on me relating to my simple belief that Strat should be given a place here.
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Daggor
Forum Newbie 
Joined: February 26 2011 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Posted: March 12 2011 at 13:04 |
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It's true that 18 doesn't always equal prog, but listening to that song, I hear more prog elements than power elements.
Before Polaris/Elysium, I agreed with the original ruling that Stratovarius wasn't prog, as it only constituted an early part of their career and one album at the end (The self titled). Given the increasingly strong prog elements recently however, and the fact that 7 of their 13 albums either contain strong prog elements or are prog altogether, I'd say there's need of a recount. There are three other strong examples of the band's recent direction. Deep Unknown is on the power/prog border more than the other two, but the composition, and especially the solos are far more complex and intricate than any power metal I've heard recently.
Edited by Daggor - March 12 2011 at 13:07 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 21:10 |
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I would say we are already at that point through the addition of you-know-which-bands. |
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: June 04 2010 Location: Terria Status: Offline Points: 13298 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 19:50 |
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Sure, but still, long songs =/= prog.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007 Location: Vitória, Brasil Status: Offline Points: 7971 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 19:16 |
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Then Venom is now |
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ferush
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 363 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 18:42 |
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Stratovarius is a mean good band, but definitively progressive.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 11:38 |
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I have no clue about Stratovarius, but I want to thank Daggor for searching for other previous discussions about the band he suggested.
 Very few suggesters do this.
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Gorloche
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 30 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: March 01 2011 at 01:42 |
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I'm not so sure I would agree with you on the MGMT account; they feel at times like they are moving in a progressive direction. I feel, if they keep shifting the way they have been, we're soon going to have to retroactively reconsider some of their previous pieces as prog. As it stands, I think they definitely have progressive elements in their sound, but it is not the predominant or overarching theme of what they do.
On topic, I would say that Stratovarius is more proggy than not; their exclusion doesn't make much sense to me, given that they are widely considered, at least in the power metal community, as one of the proggiest bands of the type. However, I can see a bit (a bit) of logic in their continued exclusion, given that their progressive songs are not the main body of their albums like, say, Sonata Arctica or Kamelot or Blind Guardian. |
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 18:25 |
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No, but to create an 18 minute song with interest requires putting progressive elements in. My argument is that just one song isn't enough to get them on here. Otherwise we'd have to include about 70% of the bands in music history. |
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg |
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: June 04 2010 Location: Terria Status: Offline Points: 13298 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 15:42 |
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And one thing I hate that people assume: long songs = prog. not true at all. the pop band MGMT released a 12 minute long song on their 2010 album. Is MGMT prog? Nope.
Edited by andyman1125 - February 28 2011 at 15:43 |
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: June 04 2010 Location: Terria Status: Offline Points: 13298 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 15:39 |
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I didn't even read any of the posts, but I say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Desoc
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 12 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Status: Offline Points: 216 |
Posted: February 27 2011 at 14:50 |
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I don't know or care about Stratovarius, but I recall a similar if not identical argument being used when people kept bringing up Metallica and Black Sabbath back in the days...  |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: February 27 2011 at 12:32 |
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I have always supported this band's inclusion, but they were rejected again (for prog related) only last year, and this was confirmed by M@x the site owner. There really is no point in resurrecting the issue now, they will not be added.
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The Neck Romancer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10185 |
Posted: February 27 2011 at 11:35 |
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Kinda, and they also want to show to everyone their favorite band is "progressive". I've done that before once though
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Reconsidering Stratovarius
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CCVP wrote: