Syd Barrett guitar style - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Posted: January 29 2011 at 12:00

Nice post Toddler, thanks.

TODDLER

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Posted: January 29 2011 at 07:42

I have always been more drawn to Syd's talents as a writer than a guitarist....although, clearly he did invent original ideas that were applied to guitar for years to come. The sound effects on electric and the chord progressions he wrote for songs like "Astronomy Domine" were quite different from what anyone else was doing at the time......so as it seems. Hendrix had feedback and the emulation of train whistles, bombs, police car sirens while Grace Slick, David Crosby, and Brian Jones were standing in the wings wondering how it could even be possible to do such a thing. Every Psychedelic band whether AM or FM underground, like Electric Prunes, Lovin Spoonful, Blues Magoos to....Quicksilver Messenger Service, Blue Cheer, and of course Cream and....Henry Vestine from Canned Heat were attempting to make sounds on the guitar that could be placed into this realm but not quite reaching the originality plateau of Hendrix's style and or Barrett's writing.

Barrett used to take a slide and rub it up and down the strings while using an echo-plex and a distorted sound. It reminded me of how a synth was later used in rock music. Or the insane effect of a violin bow scratching up and down with that sci-fi echo sound that one might hearr in a 50's Sci-Fi movie. Bernard Hermann style perhaps. In that sense he was different from Hendrix .......but kind of on the same path.....for example: Hendrix was personally interested in Sci-Fi films and novels and this brings to mind "Astro Man" which Hendrix privately joked about and called it " A-hole Man" ....but anyway folks, Barrett did pull a little emulation of early Science Fiction TV themes. "Lucifer Sam" and part "Astronomy Domine" are prime examples of this adaption His acoustic guitar on songs like "The Gnome" sound completely grand! I really enjoyed his acoustic playing in the early days. I personally think that "Bike" was the work of a genius! His later adaption of the James Joyce poem "Golden Hair" was the most outstanding aspect to "Madcap Laughs" for me. The song repeats itself endlessly and obviously if you focus on that alone you kind of miss the point of his creations or ideas.

Just as some might feel about early Tangerine Dream as they pay attention to the pulse more than the layers of atmospheric traveling. Although "Golden Hair" was short and simple, it represented something atmospheric and mysterious. One observation of mine that is not totally clear and mystifies me is the connection I make between Jefferson Airplane's "Lather" and Syd Barrett's writing. "Lather" contains those sounds and ideas of an early Pink Floyd song. The chord ideas are reminiscent of what either turned up on Madcap or his bizzare creations during the transition of Piper and Saucerful of Secrets. Another strange accident is a song by the Beach Boys from the Wild Honey album titled "I'd Love Just Once To See You" which is just way too close to being a Syd Barrett song. You have to block out the vocals and use your imagination hearing Syd Barrett's voice instead of the Beach Boys. If you pay close attention to the chord changes? And one vocal part you must put emphasis on is the "Bah, ba, ba, ba,....Bah, ba, ba! It's very close in style to what later turned up on "Vegetable Man". Of course everyone is at one time or another.......influenced by somebody and that is not my point. In this case, and with these examples that I've given, I am baffled and curious as to who was first or was it all by chance?

Edited by TODDLER - January 29 2011 at 07:44

moshkito

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Posted: January 28 2011 at 21:06

Hi,

this is a difficult topic, because in the end, Syd didn't do enough, or his chance was cut short.

The story is that he started getting too spaced out ... and I question that ... and the wisdom that no one was intelligent enough to take him to a doctor and get some help ... that might otherwise save ... this insanity. And this is where the time, the place, and the people failed, and helped kill a scene ... because of drugs, and too much reckless behavior. Sound familiar already like LA, SF and anywhere else?

When you see the video in "Tonite We All Love in London" and some of the other clips, it's hard to believe, that this guy was not the new Jimi Hendrix, or the new Stevie Ray Vaughn, or the new Ax Gernrich ... because a couple of months later we are hearing these accoustic guitar pieces of sh*t that ... are totally out of sync with anything including music as we know it. Maybe it was the dawn of the new punk and what eventually became the Sex Pimples!

But, he was not the only one. But, the lyrics that he had written, or were cleaned up by his PF mates, were very well written, conceived, and quite literary ... which suggests there was a lot more here than meets the eye.

It also tells you, that Syd, and his band mates and other musicians were also a part of a scene that was about ... experimentation ... and learning new things ... it has been said that it was in one of these events that Yoko painted a wall white and put a little black hole in the middle of it and nothing else ... and that was it ... and while you and I might sit here and say ... that's not art ... the most obvious thing that we can think of is ... what's this all about, and in the end, it was ... that we had lost the sense of wonder, experimentation, and that kid like wildness for the spirit and expression and stories and fantastic ideas ... and the days of the "psychedelic age" became associated with that ... and for an intelligent musician ... I would think that means ... not playing the same as everyone else, because this is what I see and want to do ... and Interstellar Overdrive, for me ... is just that ... a beautiful flight of fancy and expression and exploration ...

... that we forgot about ... and lost amidst all the drugs ... and screwed up media attacks that were around (still are) about that time and place, specially in the movies with "Woodstock" and even more recently with "Taking Woodstock" ... where the instinctive goodness and selfless attitude, all of a sudden became the evil giant that ended with a man killed in front of the stage. ... and a perfect symbol for the media to continue attacking the youngsters for being stoned, and this and that and totally incapable of anything except being idiots and unfit for society.

There have not been, since Syd, a lot of people that had/have that inner drive and ability to try so many different things, and I think the early PF material showed that really well, with the songs off the wall, weird, strange and sometimes down right too literary for an audience that could not possible understand them ... as is the famous quote from Syd Barrett that showed up on so many Pink Floyd bootlegs, that they are trying to hide and bury so it doesn't look like they are simply abusing the priviledge and taking advantage of the supposedly tragic event around them!

Things like "Interstellar Overdrive", are to me, the real "krautrock" and what it became, or where it came from, but the fact remains that it was happening at the same time across the pond in Europe, and not before or after, and this makes it look like no one else was doing anything else like it anywhere else in the world, and I tend to believe that this is ... bad information and attention to the rest of the world ... I've said before, there are hundreds of pickers in the streets of Barcelona, or Madrid, that make the best progressive, rock or jazz guitarist look like a total idiot that can only play scales! ... that simple! But I am not sure that anyone in this board ... wants to think, or consider that option at all.

One last thing. Kevin Ayers knows a few things ... and he is either not telling and will take it with him when he departs because his friend (I imagine) ... in the end ... was given a rotten deal ... and that the music business is a rotten mothertrucker out there ... and he simply didn't want to even be near it at all ... specially London. Either that or someone is going to convince us that Majorca beer is the best in the world?

Right!

Edited by moshkito - January 28 2011 at 21:07

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:32

When looking at the footage of the groundbreaking early renditions of Interstellar Overdrive (pure avant/space prog in 1966), I always had the feeling that the songwriting and the instrumental interplay that we now call "progressive" were developed simply to allow and support Syd to express everything he wanted to squeeze out of his guitar. Therefore, while I think prog was born with ITCOTCK, in my opinion prog was conceived around Syd.

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Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:21

Syd style was an unorthodox style of rhythmically loose playing, use of volume swells, feedback, slide and echo all to create a surreal sound. Syd though had his influences like everyone else. Also being original doesn't automatically mean you are influential but I think Syd was an influential guitarist. What do you guys think of him as a guitarist?

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harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989	Posted: January 29 2011 at 12:00
	Nice post Toddler, thanks.

TODDLER Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126	Posted: January 29 2011 at 07:42
	I have always been more drawn to Syd's talents as a writer than a guitarist....although, clearly he did invent original ideas that were applied to guitar for years to come. The sound effects on electric and the chord progressions he wrote for songs like "Astronomy Domine" were quite different from what anyone else was doing at the time......so as it seems. Hendrix had feedback and the emulation of train whistles, bombs, police car sirens while Grace Slick, David Crosby, and Brian Jones were standing in the wings wondering how it could even be possible to do such a thing. Every Psychedelic band whether AM or FM underground, like Electric Prunes, Lovin Spoonful, Blues Magoos to....Quicksilver Messenger Service, Blue Cheer, and of course Cream and....Henry Vestine from Canned Heat were attempting to make sounds on the guitar that could be placed into this realm but not quite reaching the originality plateau of Hendrix's style and or Barrett's writing. Barrett used to take a slide and rub it up and down the strings while using an echo-plex and a distorted sound. It reminded me of how a synth was later used in rock music. Or the insane effect of a violin bow scratching up and down with that sci-fi echo sound that one might hearr in a 50's Sci-Fi movie. Bernard Hermann style perhaps. In that sense he was different from Hendrix .......but kind of on the same path.....for example: Hendrix was personally interested in Sci-Fi films and novels and this brings to mind "Astro Man" which Hendrix privately joked about and called it " A-hole Man" ....but anyway folks, Barrett did pull a little emulation of early Science Fiction TV themes. "Lucifer Sam" and part "Astronomy Domine" are prime examples of this adaption His acoustic guitar on songs like "The Gnome" sound completely grand! I really enjoyed his acoustic playing in the early days. I personally think that "Bike" was the work of a genius! His later adaption of the James Joyce poem "Golden Hair" was the most outstanding aspect to "Madcap Laughs" for me. The song repeats itself endlessly and obviously if you focus on that alone you kind of miss the point of his creations or ideas. Just as some might feel about early Tangerine Dream as they pay attention to the pulse more than the layers of atmospheric traveling. Although "Golden Hair" was short and simple, it represented something atmospheric and mysterious. One observation of mine that is not totally clear and mystifies me is the connection I make between Jefferson Airplane's "Lather" and Syd Barrett's writing. "Lather" contains those sounds and ideas of an early Pink Floyd song. The chord ideas are reminiscent of what either turned up on Madcap or his bizzare creations during the transition of Piper and Saucerful of Secrets. Another strange accident is a song by the Beach Boys from the Wild Honey album titled "I'd Love Just Once To See You" which is just way too close to being a Syd Barrett song. You have to block out the vocals and use your imagination hearing Syd Barrett's voice instead of the Beach Boys. If you pay close attention to the chord changes? And one vocal part you must put emphasis on is the "Bah, ba, ba, ba,....Bah, ba, ba! It's very close in style to what later turned up on "Vegetable Man". Of course everyone is at one time or another.......influenced by somebody and that is not my point. In this case, and with these examples that I've given, I am baffled and curious as to who was first or was it all by chance? Edited by TODDLER - January 29 2011 at 07:44

moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17777	Posted: January 28 2011 at 21:06
	Hi, this is a difficult topic, because in the end, Syd didn't do enough, or his chance was cut short. The story is that he started getting too spaced out ... and I question that ... and the wisdom that no one was intelligent enough to take him to a doctor and get some help ... that might otherwise save ... this insanity. And this is where the time, the place, and the people failed, and helped kill a scene ... because of drugs, and too much reckless behavior. Sound familiar already like LA, SF and anywhere else? When you see the video in "Tonite We All Love in London" and some of the other clips, it's hard to believe, that this guy was not the new Jimi Hendrix, or the new Stevie Ray Vaughn, or the new Ax Gernrich ... because a couple of months later we are hearing these accoustic guitar pieces of sh*t that ... are totally out of sync with anything including music as we know it. Maybe it was the dawn of the new punk and what eventually became the Sex Pimples! But, he was not the only one. But, the lyrics that he had written, or were cleaned up by his PF mates, were very well written, conceived, and quite literary ... which suggests there was a lot more here than meets the eye. It also tells you, that Syd, and his band mates and other musicians were also a part of a scene that was about ... experimentation ... and learning new things ... it has been said that it was in one of these events that Yoko painted a wall white and put a little black hole in the middle of it and nothing else ... and that was it ... and while you and I might sit here and say ... that's not art ... the most obvious thing that we can think of is ... what's this all about, and in the end, it was ... that we had lost the sense of wonder, experimentation, and that kid like wildness for the spirit and expression and stories and fantastic ideas ... and the days of the "psychedelic age" became associated with that ... and for an intelligent musician ... I would think that means ... not playing the same as everyone else, because this is what I see and want to do ... and Interstellar Overdrive, for me ... is just that ... a beautiful flight of fancy and expression and exploration ... ... that we forgot about ... and lost amidst all the drugs ... and screwed up media attacks that were around (still are) about that time and place, specially in the movies with "Woodstock" and even more recently with "Taking Woodstock" ... where the instinctive goodness and selfless attitude, all of a sudden became the evil giant that ended with a man killed in front of the stage. ... and a perfect symbol for the media to continue attacking the youngsters for being stoned, and this and that and totally incapable of anything except being idiots and unfit for society. There have not been, since Syd, a lot of people that had/have that inner drive and ability to try so many different things, and I think the early PF material showed that really well, with the songs off the wall, weird, strange and sometimes down right too literary for an audience that could not possible understand them ... as is the famous quote from Syd Barrett that showed up on so many Pink Floyd bootlegs, that they are trying to hide and bury so it doesn't look like they are simply abusing the priviledge and taking advantage of the supposedly tragic event around them! Things like "Interstellar Overdrive", are to me, the real "krautrock" and what it became, or where it came from, but the fact remains that it was happening at the same time across the pond in Europe, and not before or after, and this makes it look like no one else was doing anything else like it anywhere else in the world, and I tend to believe that this is ... bad information and attention to the rest of the world ... I've said before, there are hundreds of pickers in the streets of Barcelona, or Madrid, that make the best progressive, rock or jazz guitarist look like a total idiot that can only play scales! ... that simple! But I am not sure that anyone in this board ... wants to think, or consider that option at all. One last thing. Kevin Ayers knows a few things ... and he is either not telling and will take it with him when he departs because his friend (I imagine) ... in the end ... was given a rotten deal ... and that the music business is a rotten mothertrucker out there ... and he simply didn't want to even be near it at all ... specially London. Either that or someone is going to convince us that Majorca beer is the best in the world? Right! Edited by moshkito - January 28 2011 at 21:07
	Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com

harmonium.ro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989	Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:32
	When looking at the footage of the groundbreaking early renditions of Interstellar Overdrive (pure avant/space prog in 1966), I always had the feeling that the songwriting and the instrumental interplay that we now call "progressive" were developed simply to allow and support Syd to express everything he wanted to squeeze out of his guitar. Therefore, while I think prog was born with ITCOTCK, in my opinion prog was conceived around Syd.

Floydman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Groupie Joined: November 24 2009 Status: Offline Points: 67	Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:21
	Syd style was an unorthodox style of rhythmically loose playing, use of volume swells, feedback, slide and echo all to create a surreal sound. Syd though had his influences like everyone else. Also being original doesn't automatically mean you are influential but I think Syd was an influential guitarist. What do you guys think of him as a guitarist?