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maani ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
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Nacho: Why "Jesus' words only?" After all, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Tim. 3:16. In this regard, it is true that Jesus did not say anything specifically about homosexuality. But that is ultimately a moot point; there are dozens of things Jesus never said anything about or did, yet are clear and obvious within the "Christian construct," and living a "Christ-like" life. There are two main Scriptural passages that address homosexuality. The first, and harshest, is at Leviticus 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." Note that the word "abomination" is even stronger than the word "sin," and denoted something that was truly "hateful" to God. The second, and more detailed, one is at Romans 1:26-27: "For even the women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature [i.e., God]. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing that which is shameful [read "sinful"], and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." (Bracketed comments are mine) Thus, the Scripture makes it clear that the homosexual lifestyle is inherently "sinful." Still, having said that, I reiterate that although a Christian may feel obligated to inform a homosexual family member or friend of this, it should never be done in a judgmental or condemning fashion, and that, once informed, the homosexual person should be treated with the same love, peace, humility, forgiveness, etc. that should be accorded anyone else if one is to truly live a "Christ-like" life. Frenchie: You are among way too many people for whom the "Church" (capital C) has been its own worst enemy. This is why so many Christians have rejected - and continue to reject, in growing numbers - organized, mainstream, hierarchical "religion" in favor of "home churches" and other alternative churches. "Christianity" lost its way when it become "politicized," and fell away from the most basic precepts of Jesus' life and ministry. It is often said that "Religion is about laws, rules and behavior; faith is about a relationship with God and Christ." While there is a place for "religion," faith is the more important of the two. The "Church" - and many supposedly faith-based political groups (including the so-called "Christian Right" here in the U.S.) - focus way too heavily on the former at the expense of the latter. Indeed, not only are they focused on "laws and behavior," but they also take Scripture out of context to support unloving, unforgiving and ultimately un-Christian views. You are 100% correct in believing that "religion should never be enforced" (though I'm pretty sure you mean "forced"). After all, faith cannot be "given," much less forced upon someone. It must come from inside. Even "religion" - the laws and behavior that underlie a "Christ-like" life - cannot, and should not, be "forced upon" anyone. This entire notion is antithetical to what Jesus did and taught. He Himself would preach in villages, on mountains, from boats offshore, anywhere he could. But He never "demanded" that anyone listen; people were free to listen or not - and, if they did listen, they were free to accept or reject what He offered. He never once judged or condemned anyone for choosing not to listen or to reject His teachings. And when He sent the apostles and disciples out to preach the Gospel, He told them to go to each house and offer the Gospel. But He also told them that if the people did not want to hear it, the apostle or disciple was to "shake the dust from their feet" and move on to the next house. That is, there was to be no "coercion"; the Gospel was to be preached lovingly, humbly and patiently, with no judgment or condemnation if someone chose not to hear it, or to reject it. The entire idea of "ram-it-down-your-throat" proselytizing is also anathema to Jesus' words and actions. Any Christian who would "attack" you for your lack of belief does not understand who Jesus was or what He was about, and thus does not understand their own faith. "Attack" infers judgment or condemnation, and the Scripture clearly admonishes Christians not to engage in either; that any and all "judgment" is reserved exclusively to Jesus "at the end." I am truly sorry that you were forced to undergo such harsh and un-Christian treatment, and that it led to you completely rejecting faith. If it is of any help, you need never be "afraid" of not believing. After all, "free will" is ultimately the freedom to accept or reject God. Thus, you are simply exercising your free will in rejecting Him. I can, of course, only hope that perhaps one day you will find some sort of inner faith - however that manifests itself - and feel comfortable expressing that faith without fear of condemnation. Peace. |
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frenchie ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: July 30 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Maani, help me out... this isn't to do with homosexuality (at least i hope not) but i was wondering if you could help me. When i was growing up i went to a church of england primary school. I used to believe in God because i was AFRAID not to, that school messed me up, i felt forced to go to church (we would get told off if we didn't). As a child i did not believe in God or any of the bible or that christianity works but i was too afraid of being punished. My teachers used to say things like "you will go to hell" or "you will be killed" or "you will be put in jail" if i didn't believe in god. They taught this to many of the children at school since we were naive we were all scared that we had to be believe in god or terrible things would happen to us. I finally had enough and turned my back on christianity (all because of my primary school enforcing it on me). I recently told a christian about this and they swore at me and said i was evil and that i am attacking christianity. I don't see how, just because i don't believe in it. I also do not believe that religion should be enforced. I was never baptised and therefore the teachers should not have made me feel as if i had to believe in god as a youth. Maani, you say: it is incumbent upon Christians to treat homosexuals with the same love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, selflessness, charity, service and truth that they treat any other person, whether Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, atheist - or heterosexual. To do otherwise is simply not Christian. surely my teachers and the christian that verbally attacked me are not following the above mentioned guidelines. I was wondering if you could give me your thoughts on all of this. Hope you reply! |
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The Worthless Recluse
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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What tattoo???? |
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tuxon ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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That's not my girlfriend.
mine doesn't have a tattoo.
edit: I just found out she had it removed, a while after I met her Edited by tuxon |
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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Hey,,,where did you ge tthat pic of Tuxxy's girlfriend? Now thats what I call a Gold Medal Girl. |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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You sure? Edited by Tony R |
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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Ah...I see it now. Yuk.
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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That's because you have a crap PC!
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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Ha, ha...can't see it dork boy. |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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What? The Rock said he was gayer? Gayer than who???? We all new he was gay,unfortunately Liz Taylor didnt! Anyway here's a picture that will send you back into the closet..... |
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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That is how the cure took place...Maani is stoning me and then I heard one of the rocks speak.."Gdub, My name is Gaia and I forgive you for being gay...go forth and sin no more". |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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Bah,I dont believe any of it! You are just a little uptight! Why dont you go round Maani's and get stoned...... |
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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Nah...I'm straight now. Maani cured me. Praise the Lord. Girls Rules. Lesbians turn me on. I want to see some coochie right now....Yeah! WOO HOO! |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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You are just jealous that you dont get all the homophobic attention any more! |
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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That pun ruled...you're just jealous that a Brit didn't come up with it. Seriously, though, Bald John and Bald Fred post so often on this site, one wonders where they find time to perform in a band and run a restaurant as well. Also, one gets a feeling that they're just here to shamelessly promote the lp and then when they find out no-one gives a crap, they'll depart our fair forum for good. |
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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Lesbians forming their own religion,ministers preaching that we should stone gays and Gdub making the worst pun I have ever seen!! i dont know which is the bigger crime This site gets Gaia and Gaia with every passing day... Welcome to Progarchives 2005 !!! Home to every musical,intellectual and social misfit on the planet. |
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gdub411 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 24 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3484 |
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Strange that 2 lesbos worship guysa!....are you sure you're dykes? Edited by gdub411 |
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JrKASperov ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 07 2004 Status: Offline Points: 904 |
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To answer your last question nacho, it is a movement seen in the
'prophetic movement' and in many traditional churches. The lust for
money corrupts church leaders, and as such they will never condemn
wealth. I personally condemn wealth of material need without sharing,
as Yeshua promoted a sharing kind of existence. Homosexuality is really
an easy target, not yet accepted by society anyway, while wealth
is.
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Epic.
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nacho ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 18 2004 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 521 |
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Yep, I was expecting exactly that from you Maani. It's obvious the difference is repenting or not. However, maybe the main point in your explanation is that sentence about "The homosexual person in Scenario B is committing a sin by engaging in homosexuality". Can you please enlighten us as to from which part of the scriptures do you take that conclusion? I'm not an expert in that, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of quotes there (please, Jesus words only). Also, I'd like to know your views about which can be the reason why most christian churches have forgotten that clear statement about the camel and the needle, that if I recall well is reported by three of the four evangelists. Why do churches state so clearly that homosexuals will never enter heaven but they don't condemn wealth?
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BaldFriede ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
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I had to look up "prosternation" in a dictionary and came up with prosternation \Pros`ter*na"tion\, n. [F. See Prostration.] Dejection; depression. [Obs.] --Wiseman. Are you sure about your choice of words? |
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![]() BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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