| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Textbook 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
|
 Posted: May 05 2010 at 06:16 |
I think that both are essential for PF to be PF but if I HAVE to choose I go with Waters. Gilmour is a great guitar player but as others have said, it is Waters' grandiose ambitions and lyrical conceits that gave Pink Floyd its dark, edgy progressive edge. Without Waters and with Gilmour in the driving seat, I think they'd have turned out a musically accomplished but fairly generic AOR band.
|
 |
Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 470
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 17:49 |
 octopus-4 wrote:
@Paravion: Gilmour and Latimer boring??? a guitar is that object with six or twelve strings used to produce sounds. Are you sure that we are speaking about the same thing? |
this thing?
octopus-4 wrote:
Well, everybody has the right to think what he wants. A forum is just to discuss, not to fight. Who's a good guitarist in your opinion? |
Fred frith is my favorite guitarplayer.
I don't seek a fight, I just find it boring to listen to gilmour and latimer play guitar (a generalization of course). What I think and might not think about music, I normally don't discuss - I just claim it. Discussions of this sort are absolutely pointless - but occasionally entertaining.
Edited by Paravion - May 04 2010 at 17:53
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 16:41 |
The reason why I have mentioned Jeff Beck is not his playing on Amused to Death, but the fact reported in the book "Pigs might fly" that he was contacted to replace Barrett before Gilmour, so he might have been the PF guitarist.
@Paravion: Gilmour and Latimer boring??? a guitar is that object with six or twelve strings used to produce sounds. Are you sure that we are speaking about the same thing?
Well, everybody has the right to think what he wants. A forum is just to discuss, not to fight. Who's a good guitarist in your opinion?
Last comment: saying that Waters has a good voice is like saying that he plays Bass....
I'm joking. He's not Jaco Pastorius, but I don't look for jazz when I listen tp PF. The same reason why Al di Meola can be more skilled than Gilmour, but he doesn't give me the same sensations.
Probably what we were used to smoke in the 70's is no longer available  |
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:40 |
| As a matter of fact, the guitar player on this album is Jeff Beck. And even though on some songs the guitar really sounds cool, there are other in which I think Gilmour could have taken to another level. For me, What God Wants part 3 could have used some more Gilmour-ish guitars. It's a miracle, on the other hand, sounds really cool and I don't think Gilmour could have done much better (I guess it just wouldn't have worked as well with hem). Other songs I don't really bother to remember also might have been much more interesting had the rest of Pink Floyd helped. |
Hmmm ... I would NOT have swapped Jeff Beck for David Gilmour ... no way in heck.
But it tells you that Roger likes a guitarist that can let go and open up the song in an entirely different way ... in my book, these days, David is too stuck doing the same thing all over again to be able to do something new. And Roger, well, he's probably broke and needs new maids on his 10 different villas, so he might as well tour the Wall again!
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13634
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:19 |
|
No, I wasn't talking about their personalities either, and didn't assume you were.
Both of them have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up when they play. Boring they ain't.
|
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
|
|
Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 470
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 13:04 |
|
just to clarify - I'm not talking about their personalities (don't assume you are either). But I'm pretty sure that I find their guitar playing pretty boring.
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13634
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:53 |
Paravion wrote:
Latimer and gilmour are probably the two most boring guitarist I can think of and say that I've listened a lot to.. |
I'm sorry - you are entitled to your opinion, but, really. Latimer & Gilmour can be accused of many things (my admiration for Waters is unbounded, and I felt the band came to an end when he left), but being boring is absolutely one thing neither of them can be accused of.
|
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
|
|
Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 470
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:17 |
|
Latimer and gilmour are probably the two most boring guitarist I can think of and say that I've listened a lot to..
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 12:04 |
I'm just saying that I see PF as a group, not as a sum of individuals. Posts of this kind are, I think, just to discuss about artists, nothing more. So it seems we are saying the same thing with different words.
This post has the same value as asking Lennon vs. McCartney or Gabriel vs Collins or Latimer vs Bardens or whoever else appears in your mind.
As a PF fan, I want to remark that Wright's contribution to the ensemble is usually underestimated. This is why The Final Cut appears so poor compared to the rest of their discography, even if taken alone is a great album.
In terms of skill we can discuss about Gilmour vs Fripp, but neither Fripp or Hillage have ever been able to give me the same sensations that I get from Gilmour. It doesn't matter how many notes you play in a second. What matters is that they are the right ones. (Hillage is in my top ten but Latimer comes just after Gilmour).
|
|
Paravion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2010
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 470
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 08:02 |
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him? All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky? |
yes yes (i'm afraid so) and yes. I don't see where you are going with those rhetorical questions. It seems like a strange way to get some point across. My imagination is vivid - I can imagine all sorts of things. Where's the relevance according to gilmour/waters battle? Isn't it obvious that pink floyd was pink floyd? (a group of musicians who created that particular music at that particular time)
I'm not af fan of either - when I was young and easily impressed i was really into pink floyd and a sworn waters fan. I still have a lot of respect (and occasionally enjoy) the music they created prior to dark side of the moon.
With regards to the question, the only thing I can say is that Waters seems to have much more character and I certainly prefer his voice over gilmour's. Gilmour has nothing to offer me, he turned out at very dull guitarist as well (just compare him to the likes of fred frith, robert fripp, steve hillage etc.) Roger it is.
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
|
Posted: May 04 2010 at 03:39 |
rogerthat wrote:
I agree with moshkito about Rick Wright. His beautiful, haunting serenity and stillness lent that cosmic dimension to Floyd's music which I cherish most among their many facets. Without that, they would be a great band with great concepts (Waters) and great guitar playing (Gilmour) but not Pink Floyd. There have been rock keyboardists who could have chopped Wright in two for,er, chops but none who used it more beautifully than he, imo. Instead of duelling with the guitarists or trying to evoke a pseudo-classical atmosphere, he used the keyboard as a tender, delicate counter to the distortion and edge of electric guitar and thereby took rock to a different level.
As for the question at hand, I can barely listen to Waters solo but can tolerate the last two Floyd albums and even like On An Island, so Gilmour. He was the better musician (and also the better singer). |
It doesn't mean that I don't like Waters. "In the flesh", the DVD, is fantastic and Snowy White is one of my favourite guitarists.
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 23:11 |
|
I agree with moshkito about Rick Wright. His beautiful, haunting serenity and stillness lent that cosmic dimension to Floyd's music which I cherish most among their many facets. Without that, they would be a great band with great concepts (Waters) and great guitar playing (Gilmour) but not Pink Floyd. There have been rock keyboardists who could have chopped Wright in two for,er, chops but none who used it more beautifully than he, imo. Instead of duelling with the guitarists or trying to evoke a pseudo-classical atmosphere, he used the keyboard as a tender, delicate counter to the distortion and edge of electric guitar and thereby took rock to a different level.
As for the question at hand, I can barely listen to Waters solo but can tolerate the last two Floyd albums and even like On An Island, so Gilmour. He was the better musician (and also the better singer).
|
|
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 22:59 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them. |
Yes but Waters came up with the concepts, the Floyd psychological and philosophical stance and mission, the effects and voices, the drive and masterminding. Floyd is Roger Waters. Aurally, fine, the sound intermingles with the meaning, and that sound is partially Gilmour and Wright, but LARGELY, overwhelmingly even, the meaning is Waters. Could the sound have developed without Water's message? Impossible. Even the copy cat woks of Gilmour exploit this message, because without it the music is impotent.When I cite Pink Floyd as a major influence on me Philosophically and psychologically, I'm talking about Waters, not Gilmour. |
But the concept is not everything Floyd was about, though it seems it was the most important part for you, and ofcourse, that's your choice. If we think Floyd is Waters, then the sound would be that of Amused to Death, which is very good anyway, but we would never have had Dark Side, Wish you were here, Animals (which are among my favourites, and I prefer over Amused to Death). Even The Wall would have been very different if Waters had not had the input from the rest of the band (ever heard the Demos for that album?), even if it was almost all written (lyrics and music) by Waters.
Edited by Dellinger - May 05 2010 at 21:40
|
|
progpositivity
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 15 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 18:07 |
Nick Mason - because he is the one creative enough to come up with the idea of eating pie without the crust. 
|
|
Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7!
http://www.progpositivity.com
|
|
RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 16:34 |
octopus-4 wrote:
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them. |
Yes but Waters came up with the concepts, the Floyd psychological and philosophical stance and mission, the effects and voices, the drive and masterminding. Floyd is Roger Waters. Aurally, fine, the sound intermingles with the meaning, and that sound is partially Gilmour and Wright, but LARGELY, overwhelmingly even, the meaning is Waters. Could the sound have developed without Water's message? Impossible. Even the copy cat woks of Gilmour exploit this message, because without it the music is impotent. When I cite Pink Floyd as a major influence on me Philosophically and psychologically, I'm talking about Waters, not Gilmour.
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 15:43 |
To those who say Waters: can you imagine Jeff Beck playing in PF instead of Gilmour?
To those who say Gilmour: can you imagine the lyrics on PF songs since WYWH to The Wall written by him?
All, can you imagine PF without the great Rick in the sky?
Now you can prefer one or the other, but PF are just all them together. In favour of sir David I can say that High Hopes is better than any other song written by Waters after the Final Cut.
Syd Barrett started everything. Without him they would have likely been just another British blues revival band.
Nick Mason was the glue.
Thanks to all of them.
|
|
tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 14:29 |
|
Water, as in who the f. is Gilmore
|
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|
elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 13:13 |
|
Gilmour in charecter and musician ship Roger seems a bit too smug kinda like yeah I'm roger waters I can f**king punch the pope and no one will do anything hahhaha
|
|
"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
|
|
thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
|
Posted: May 03 2010 at 06:38 |
They argue like a pair of little girls...
Rick Wright
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
|
Posted: December 19 2009 at 11:41 |
Waters vs Gilmour? The very bad in this sentence is "vs".
Together they have done Comfortably numb. Enough to put them in the history of music.
I give my preference to Gilmour but the live8 has been a stunning experience.
And please don't forget the great Rick in the sky
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
David Gilmour vs. Roger Waters
