Which do you despise the most?

Dance, R&B, Rap & most Punk

hasheten, please change your font to something a little easier on the eyes next time.

Edited by p0mt3 - March 20 2009 at 10:08

to the poster who wondered what genre Culture Club belong to, i would say that i believe they are a New Romantic group that sprung out of that androgynous nightclub in London, though the name evades me at the moment.  also, Annie Lennox's "David Bowie" look from the same era was also inspired by the fashion and sensibilities of the New Romantic movement.  wow, that was a mouthful, time for the Listerine!

p0mt3 wrote: I just don't see how cutting and pasting previousely existing material together is anywhere near the quality of writing and playing instruments yourself.

In terms of writing:

digging through old sources
finding pieces that go together
modifying them
combining disparate sources into a cohesive whole
having songs evolve over time
having songs tell a story (only some do this)

It's a different skill set than normal songwriting, but just as valid.


In terms of playing:

If you do it on the computer, not much (however, it's worth noting that much non-sampled music can be done on the computer as well)
If you do it live with turntables, getting everything in the right place at the right time can be incredibly difficult (which is why Kid Koala is such a virtuoso).  It's one of those things that seems easier than it actually is.

p0mt3 wrote: Many people have debated whether or not Rap is truly music in the traditional sense, so I'm not the only one.

Well, it's music in the sense that it's a deliberate arrangement of sound in space that's distinct from speaking.

This is the type of discussion that probably deserves its own thread, but listen to this:

DJ Shadow - Building Steam with a Grain of Salt

That's one of the most sublime pieces of music I've heard, and yes, it is hip-hop (which refers to the musical style, rapping is just the vocal style).  I find it hard to argue that that's not music.

Also try this.

Kid Koala - Fender Bender

You probably can't tell just from listening (I certainly can't), but this is created entirely from samples (like the DJ Shadow piece above).  Moreover, Kid Koala is widely recognized as a virtuoso on the turntable.

And finally, here's a sample of non-hip-hop that's also created at least in part by samples, and which I think we'd both agree is definitely music:

Animal Collective - My Girls

And of course, PA's own Rush has used rap style vocals in one of their songs, which I would argue suggests that rapping vocals are just as legitimately musical as regular singing (albeit focusing on rhythm more than melody, but rhythm is just as much a part of music as melody).

Yes, the technology behind hip-hop is different in most cases (The Roots, who feature live music as a backing, are an exception), and yes, the creative process is different, but I don't think that disqualifies it as music.


As for the song you mentioned... I don't think it should've been song of the year.  But it's also not representative of a great portion of modern hip-hop.

I deleted my response because I had a better one to make.

You did give credit to some of the good hip-hop out there, but you seemed to exclude the 90s (the golden age of hip-hop) and especially the 2000s.

While I'm sure children do pick up certain things they say from the music they listen to, I think that bad parenting (which is rampant nowadays, it seems) is a much bigger problem.  I listen to plenty of rap that has materialistic, sometimes even misogynistic themes, but I do not convey those attitudes because I was raised to treat people with respect.

As for Kanye West, yes, Kanye West the person is self-righteous prick.  But Kanye West the musician combines his self-righteousness with goofiness and even some self-doubt, and that's why I referred to him.  The majority of his music serves as a great counterexample to your point that most popular hip-hop these days is materialistic and misogynistic.

Well, InvisibleUnicorns, I'm not sure why you deleted your response to me, but I will answer your question anyway . . .

p0mt3 wrote: In my opinon, there is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING more horrendous and idiotic than modern Rap and Hip-Hop music. I'm so sick and tired of hearing these mumbling idiots hoot and holler, say 'yeah' all the f**king time, and talk about bitches, fast cars and being materialistic. Not only is it not music, it is corrupting the children who listen to it.   80s Hip-Hop was pretty cool, even I can admit it, but this modern trash is just ridiculous. ... Am I wrong, here?

At the very least, you seem to be unfamiliar with what constitutes a huge portion of modern hip-hop.   There's a ton of great stuff you're missing that's not at all like what you mention there.  I can give recommendations if you want. (EDIT: just saw your above post, it's worth noting that Kanye West is quite often unlike what you described )

Also, even if you don't like it, it still is music, but that's a different discussion.


Edited by InvisibleUnicorns - March 19 2009 at 15:10

And how could anyone hate Funk? It's great!

None except one - and I'd lie denying that I despise it - it's called "manele" and it's the most polished kind of non-music those of my kind chose to like, party on and even live with. It's played by aphonous slumdogs (of course, they become filthy rich in an instant), it's got lyrics and melodies written by imbeciles, it's degraded to the bone pseudo-folk, it's the lowest kind of musical quality I have ever heard, it's music for the trivial and stupid who don't have any kind of particular taste, and it invades my privacy constantly, from macho-boys playing it loud while speeding with their cars to parties next door, TV shows, and all other forms.

So, yeah, I utterly despise it.

Regarding other genres, if I don't like it, I mostly don't even pay attention to it, so there's no reason to that degree of "despising" it.




Edited by Ricochet - March 19 2009 at 14:55