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RKS1987

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Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:20

Its not thrash metal.

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:55

^ one of their albums was album of the month in Rock Hard magazine, who are quite independent. I don't like Trivium, but they're certainly not a bad band.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3rSfGtLzshc

I still don't really like them, but it *is* thrash.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 24 2008 at 17:01

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Grimfurg

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Posted: May 24 2008 at 14:32

Nu-metal? :s

Look it's not that I don't like the fact that they're mixing with different styles. It's just really mediocre. For me it's mediocre enough to not call it thrash.

I mean, come on: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lp8p5OPtEe0

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: May 24 2008 at 06:22

^ Trivium are Thrash ... but they also add other elements, mostly Metalcore and Nu-Metal. Apparently many fans of old school Thrash don't like that, but that doesn't mean that they're not Thrash.

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Grimfurg

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Posted: May 24 2008 at 05:40

Bah forget it I give up.

Toaster Mantis View Drop Down

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Posted: May 20 2008 at 16:12

HughesJB4 wrote:

We have our "Retro Rock" bands, a theme I'm quite sick of, since I'm a person about pushing into the future and what was great and innovative at the time, was truly great for it's time, but now a band that is doing "Retro Rock" is not going to come across as exciting as Led Zeppelin did at the time Zep was innovating. Same for Trivium and their similar comtemporaries, it just seems to be "retro thrash" and nothing more. If I want to listen to modern metal, I want to be hearing a band that isn't about recreating an era, but a band that is going to create for now and the future.

That's not why I dislike the current retro rock fad. I dislike it because:

1) Most of those bands aren't interested in really saying anything with their music, they're just interested in revisiting their childhood memories. Now, there's nothing wrong with that in music but only when the band bring something more than that to the table. (which I doubt most of these are even interested in)

2) The people marketing it and the target audience are types who treat classic rock as a fashion accessory. This is the worst approach anyone can have to music, because it makes you impossible to be a true fan... all they think about is how listening to music like they made it in the seventies make you retro-cool in an ironic kitschy way.

In short, it's mostly disposable fluff for shallow trendies. The related "retro metal" fad is exactly the same deal, as you said. Notice how real metalheads don't care much about The Sword and Wolfmother?

Compare to something like early Monster Magnet (from long before retro rock became a trend, also notice that they eventually moved beyond the whole retro thing)... when you listen to, for example, Superjudge you can hear that it's by and for people who understand what made 1970s acid rock great. It's channeling the spirit of its inspirations, not just emptily recreating its form like a Cargo Cult on a Pacific island building wooden effigies of airstrips and cargo planes.

MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: May 20 2008 at 15:50

Never heard of Groove Metal ... definitely won't add it at RF as a tag. Might add "Sleaze Metal" though, as a replacement for "Party Metal". Wink

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mithrandir View Drop Down

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Posted: May 20 2008 at 14:50

HughesJB4 wrote:

(Groove is considered a Neo/Post-Thrash genre).

you people and your sub-sub-sub genres of Metal are funny to me,

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

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Posted: May 20 2008 at 10:05

Trivium, as stated earlier, had their beginnings in metalcore (and metalcore nowhere near up to the standard of a band like say Killswitch Engage IMO), and with their 2006 release The Crusade, Matt Heafy changed his vocal style from metalcore screams to James Hetfield type thrash vocals. That album I believe was a cross between Groove and Thrash Metal. A lot of kids that have recently gotten into the metal scene really like them, but many of the more "Old Guard" thrashers do their absolute best to distance themselves from a band like Trivium and similar style comtemporaries. And after listening to Trivium, I can see why and I have to agree entirely with Certif1ed's analysis of their MoP cover, it would have best left untouched by Trivium.

A lot of people have felt Trivium have done nothing new for the genre, and have basically rehashed the 80s thrash style and attempted to add (rather awfully and unoriginally) the lead guitar style of the dynamic duo of Cacophony-era Jason Becker and Marty Friedman, except unlike our 2 masters from Cacophony, the youtube videos of the Trivium guitarist show some pretty sloppy chops quite frankly, I would be willing to bet there are guys on this forum that outshred the Trivium guys, and given Mike (MisterProg) has stated he can play Cliffs Of Dover on guitar, there you go, there is already one forum member that can play guitar better than the Trivium guys, and more tastefully I'd imagine too.

We have our "Retro Rock" bands, a theme I'm quite sick of, since I'm a person about pushing into the future and what was great and innovative at the time, was truly great for it's time, but now a band that is doing "Retro Rock" is not going to come across as exciting as Led Zeppelin did at the time Zep was innovating. Same for Trivium and their similar comtemporaries, it just seems to be "retro thrash" and nothing more. If I want to listen to modern metal, I want to be hearing a band that isn't about recreating an era, but a band that is going to create for now and the future.

Just a quick note on Pantera, some of the songs on Cowboys from Hell are indeed thrash metal songs, but every album after that was purely Groove Metal and even some of the songs from CFH were already treading the groove metal water, so Pantera are really considered a Groove band and not a thrash band (Groove is considered a Neo/Post-Thrash genre).

Certif1ed

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Posted: May 19 2008 at 04:49

Grimfurg wrote:

Yes but even the technique doesn't really describe to thrash anyway.

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion - surely that is the basic underlying technique?

Grimfurg wrote:

They're an awful attempt of trying to be thrash.

Again, I'm not sure if you're making one statement or two here.

I've Youtubed Trivium and they do, indeed play thrash in many sections of their songs. I'd agree that it's not particularly imaginative or technical thrash - and in most of the live recordings, not particularly well executed either. The studio recordings have a good NuMetal style production - but it ends up making them sound the same as everyone else.

Not really awful, but not very original or musically talented either. I'd prefer to listen to Killswitch Engage - or even Slipknot.

Their cover of "Master of Puppets" is better than Dream Theater's - but nowhere near the original - they make it sound like hard work, fluff the pre-solo guitar part, make the twin lead part sound mechanical and bodge most of Kirk's beautiful decorations. Then they destroy the "Master, Master" section with that stupid double bass drum, and I nearly died when I heard the fast solo - that was really nasty.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Grimfurg

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Posted: May 18 2008 at 11:29

Yes but even the technique doesn't really describe to thrash anyway. They're an awful attempt of trying to be thrash.

Certif1ed

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Posted: May 17 2008 at 15:34

Grimfurg wrote:

(...) the true meaning of thrash is riffs, that kill (...)

Is it?

I'm not supporting the claim for Trivium, as I'm not familiar with their music yet - but if they use the technique I described, then they play thrash.

Simple as that - it has nothing to do with quality.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Grimfurg

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Posted: May 17 2008 at 11:41

Certif1ed wrote:

Grimfurg wrote:

MisterProg2112 wrote:

I'm not huge on thrash but I do listen to Testament, Megadeth, Pantera, and Slayer every once in a while. Also, a really impressive new thrash band is Trivium IMO. Some pretty good guitarwork.

I'm sorry, but Trivium are NOT thrash. They're actually pretty bad.

Thrash and bad are not mutually exclusive...

The test is whether or not they use alternate picking to produce quick rhythms over a heavy back beat, not whether you like them or not...

Sure, probably, but the true meaning of thrash is riffs, that kill. I'm sorry, but they are not thrash. The riffs are extremely mediocre, normally they rip your face off. And the "heavy back beat" that you speak of, sets a bad example from other thrash.

Pantera aren't really thrash either. Both of the bands are "Groove Metal" (I know I hate the name as well, but it's a real sub-genre).

Yukorin

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 12:40

Certif1ed wrote:

If you''re not biased in anyway against shredders, he will blow you away - he's one of the very best.

I saw them supporting Motorhead (probably on the same tour), and bought Tank's LP on the strength of their performance... Listening to it now, it's not bad - but not up there with Motorhead, of course.

No bias against shred! I usually insist on it on any instrument. Make my ears bleed! Please!

Haven't listened to the Tank LP since 82 (and I am in no hurry). I still have the plain sleeve 7" that came with it (fanboyism heh). I seem to remember that the Motorhead tour was when the stage descended from the ceiling (f**k they knew how to open a set). Pretty sure it was Iron Fist. B'ham Odeon incidentally.

Any ideas what that TV show was? It may have been a local thing. Whatever Central used to be called (ATV)? in the midlands. I remember fragments of great things on it. All nwobhm. Tank turned up and as the guitarist is about to power chord it after the drum only intro someone had forgotten to turn the gain/reverb on his amps giving him the cleanest Hank Marvin sound imaginable. Problem was, he weren't no Hank Marvin

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 12:10

Grimfurg wrote:

I'm sorry, but Trivium are NOT thrash. They're actually pretty bad.

Thrash and bad are not mutually exclusive...

The test is whether or not they use alternate picking to produce quick rhythms over a heavy back beat, not whether you like them or not...

Yukorin wrote:

Not sure who Paul Gilbert is so will check it

If you''re not biased in anyway against shredders, he will blow you away - he's one of the very best.

Yukorin wrote:

debrewguy wrote:

Hey Guys, I said give Tank a listen - Filth Hounds of Hades. Please, the world needs more Motorhead clones.

Tank are absolutely abysmal. Saw them live supporting Motorhead (maybe on the Iron Fist tour) and was given the LP.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Toaster Mantis View Drop Down

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 11:44

Grimfurg wrote:

I'm sorry, but Trivium are NOT thrash. They're actually pretty bad.

Their early albums are goofy metalcore, yeah, but with The Crusade they went thrash.

Grimfurg

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 08:39

I'm sorry, but Trivium are NOT thrash. They're actually pretty bad.

Yukorin

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 06:19

debrewguy wrote:

Hey Guys, I said give Tank a listen - Filth Hounds of Hades. Please, the world needs more Motorhead clones.

Tank are absolutely abysmal. Saw them live supporting Motorhead (maybe on the Iron Fist tour) and was given the LP. Then one of my metal loving cousins notices the LP and gives me a Tank picture-disc single for my birthday. They also top my 'most embarrassing performance on TV' chart. Forgot the show. Early 80s NWOBHM cash-in show on ITV. Remember two fascinating features on Judas Priest and Saxon.

Yukorin

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 06:12

Not sure who Paul Gilbert is so will check it

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

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Posted: May 10 2008 at 05:59

Yukorin wrote:

HughesJB4 wrote:

<snip> ...penned by the legendary Marty Friedman.

He used to host a late-night TV show on a national channel in Japan about guitar playing, interviewing musicians, air-guitar competitions etc. Comes across as a real decent chap. Speaks perfect Japanese and apparently lives 5 minutes down the road from me in Shinjuku!

I've seen it on youtube, Young Guitar!

I'm a big fan of both Marty Friedman and Paul Gilbert, so I've seen a few of the Young Guitar stuff on youtube, absolutely madness.

He does speak great Japanese, and Paul Gilbert is very fluent in Japanese as well.