I'm tired of (most) 79 minute albums!

jimmy_row wrote: Amen, I think you've hit on why I'm not a big fan of Ys...skullf**king is a good word for it perhaps and understatement and ELP would fall victim to the same if they didn't mix it up from time to time.  IMO, BSS and Selling England are as "letter perfect" as Close to the Edge...sure CttE doesn't deviate from the true "prog form", but that makes it too predictable in a sense.  I'd just as easily take SEbtP, where you jump around a little more...and to be honest, More Fool Me is a successful little song to me - I'm sure that people would have a much different view of it if Phil hadn't "taken over" later on.  I don't think you can really judge a record against "perfection", becuase there is always some way that it could have been better...take away I Know What I Like and More Fool Me and add another Cinema Show:  well then why don't we go a step farther and tidy up Epping Forrest a bit...and give Hackett some more bits, etc, etc, the same could be said of CttE, maybe a few less repititions of that incessant riff on Siberian Khatru, and so on. The changes I would make are different to the changes you would make, and so there is no real "perfection" in any sense, and album must be weighed against itself and against the work of contemporaries, not the idea of what could have been (but damnit, Passion Play could have been sooo good!).     *lots of ideas...not enough time to develop 'em all...More clappies are in order if you can extract any coherance from this post   Good discussion nonetheless.

give me half a clappie... and when you have some time to develop what you started touching on.... do so..  I 'd be curious to see where you finish.. because I like what  you started.

Amen, I think you've hit on why I'm not a big fan of Ys...skullf**king is a good word for it perhaps and understatement and ELP would fall victim to the same if they didn't mix it up from time to time.  IMO, BSS and Selling England are as "letter perfect" as Close to the Edge...sure CttE doesn't deviate from the true "prog form", but that makes it too predictable in a sense.  I'd just as easily take SEbtP, where you jump around a little more...and to be honest, More Fool Me is a successful little song to me - I'm sure that people would have a much different view of it if Phil hadn't "taken over" later on.  I don't think you can really judge a record against "perfection", becuase there is always some way that it could have been better...take away I Know What I Like and More Fool Me and add another Cinema Show:  well then why don't we go a step farther and tidy up Epping Forrest a bit...and give Hackett some more bits, etc, etc, the same could be said of CttE, maybe a few less repititions of that incessant riff on Siberian Khatru, and so on. The changes I would make are different to the changes you would make, and so there is no real "perfection" in any sense, and album must be weighed against itself and against the work of contemporaries, not the idea of what could have been (but damnit, Passion Play could have been sooo good!). 

Edited by jimmy_row - November 25 2007 at 22:32

^^many a reviewer has given Selling England by the Pound 4 stars because of More Fool Me....ignore the song and you still have around 50 minutes of material, most of which is undeniably 5-star material.  I won't even get into that f word that rhymes with killer....

Spydrfish wrote: darqdean wrote: I'm amazed to think that so many people believe that bands sit down and write filler, or deliberately load-up an album with worthless, throw away, second-rate songs just to make it longer. That's such a bizzare attitude, sure, Top-40 one-hit wonders produced by Simon Cowell would probably do that since most of their sales are singles-based and albums are of secondary importance, but no one in the album-based Prog world would do that, it doesn't make sense.     Filler tracks seemed to be more of a problem with older prog bands, Yes's fragile had 4, Emerson lake and palmer had quite a few wich actually became hits... Though short songs don't always mean filler. With the old albums that originally had epics on one side of the record and such,  Some tracks on the other side of the record seemed to be written half heartedly.

Slartibartfast wrote: The T wrote: Yes. I am.    You should try Steve Roach's Darkest Before Dawn or Philip Glass's Music With Changing Parts.  Those would really drive you up the wall.

darqdean wrote: I'm amazed to think that so many people believe that bands sit down and write filler, or deliberately load-up an album with worthless, throw away, second-rate songs just to make it longer. That's such a bizzare attitude, sure, Top-40 one-hit wonders produced by Simon Cowell would probably do that since most of their sales are singles-based and albums are of secondary importance, but no one in the album-based Prog world would do that, it doesn't make sense.

Jace wrote: Hi, I am looking to find bands that have made songs that are longer than forty minutes or even up to 75 minutes. Do you know of any bands beside Flower Kings who do that? Thanks, Jace

Porcupine tree, Moonloop (unedited) 40 minutes

Edge of sanity Crimson 1 & 2, 40 and 43 minutes

Echolyn mei 49 min

Green carnation light of day...day of darkness 60 min

Fantomas, Delirium cordia 74 min




Edited by Spydrfish - November 25 2007 at 15:03

Trickster F. wrote: I've found this true in most cases. The longer the album is the more chances the artist has to fail to impress me.

Though in some cases that could be the opposite

I like a good 50-65 minute album length, I usually consider that not too long, but not though that depends on how many tracks/notable tracks there are., If there are too many 1-2 minute filler tracks, that would make a 50 minute album seem much shorter (Selling england by the pound) Fear of a Blank planet was 50 minutes, but seemed to short cause the last two tracks failed to be notable (To me). Also longer albums such as Spock's beard's title album (77 minutes) and Marillion's Brave (71 minutes) are practically flawless and don't seem to drag on (To me). So it really depends on, like I said, I like some albums that are short but sweet, but they often leave me wanting more such as Rush albums, but sometimes an album can be full of good music but too long to really listen to much (Flower kings).


Edited by Spydrfish - November 25 2007 at 14:21

darkmatter wrote: darqdean wrote: I'm amazed to think that so many people believe that bands sit down and write filler, or deliberately load-up an album with worthless, throw away, second-rate songs just to make it longer. That's such a bizzare attitude, sure, Top-40 one-hit wonders produced by Simon Cowell would probably do that since most of their sales are singles-based and albums are of secondary importance, but no one in the album-based Prog world would do that, it doesn't make sense.   Agreed, I personally don't like seeing people using the word filler because it would be, as you said, loading an album with pointless tracks.  This doesn't make any sense to me because the artist obviously had some reason to put that track on an album (that reason NOT being to take up space, which is stupid).  If a track is meant to be on an album, it certainly can't be "filler" (meaning its only purpose is to take up space), can it?

I hate the word "filler".     It is used far too often these days.   Usually, when a reviewer uses the word "filler" to describe a track, they are simply revealing their own close-mindedness and limited musical horizons.  For example, reviewers often describe an ambient interlude or a jazz/rock tune as "filler", whereas if they expanded their musical horizons they might be able to see the value in such tracks and enjoy them for what they have to offer.

Edited by oddentity - November 23 2007 at 23:30

I was discussing this issue with a friend and we wondered if there was any correlation between length's of albums and the intervals between releases. We  weren't overly concerned but the sense of anticipation seems less these days as you have to wait longer between releases for the longer albums. Mind you if they are as superb as Human Equation I can stand the wait.