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Dim 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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 Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:02 |
Theres no way I can compete with that statement Ivan!!!
I applaude you  |
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:01 |
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Damn...why the hell did they make the record label then?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 23:00 |
 rileydog22 wrote:
Ivan, they've actually had rights to their songs the whole time: They founded Manticore Records before the release of Tarkus, and released all of their material since then on the label. They run the record label, so they had rights to the songs since they were written. Everything from Love Beach to soda commercials to those godawful remixes has been entirely their fault, not contractual obligations or money-hungry record executives. |
Not correct either Rilleydog, they owned Manticore Records but they had a contract signed with Atlantic (I believe they received money in advance) that forced them to release Love Beach despite they wanted to call a day.
- Trilogy: LP Island ILPS9186 (1972)
Cotillion / Atlantic Records 1972; re-released 1996 on Rhino {USA / Canada}
- Brain Salad Surgery: LP Manticore / Atlantic Records 1973; ; re-released 1996 on Rhino {USA / Canada}, as yo see it was released worldwide by Atlantic and their representatives in USA Rhino, today Manticore records oown the copyright becauuse the 25 years period has ended).
- Love Beach:
| 1996 |
CD |
Rhino |
72231 |
| |
CD |
Atlantic |
AMYCD217 |
| 1978 |
LP |
Atlantic |
19211 |
| 1999 |
CD |
Import |
60643 |
| 1996 |
CD |
Castle |
ESM363 |
| 1993 |
CD |
Victory Music |
480028 |
| 2006 |
CD |
JVC Japan |
63226 |
| 1999 |
CD |
Import |
60643 |
| 2001 |
CD |
Castle |
226 |
| In 1978, the band had wanted to take a few years off to pursue solo projects, but Atlantic Records wouldn't let ELP out of its contract. The label demanded a new studio album, as required in its agreement.
ELP was forced to head to Compass Point Studios in The Bahamas to record what would become Love Beach. Love Beach was a disjointed, uninspired collection of songs released in mid 1979, It also marked the end of ELP for 12 years.
http://www.emersonlakepalmer.com/bio.html |
As you see, they had a contract with Atlantic records, so Atlantic co-owned this music for a period of 25 years according to the British Act of 1988.
They could own the music as authors, but the copyright used to belong to Atlantic Records.
Iván
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:54 |
Thass okay homeslice, I think you may want to be apologizing to Rileydogg before he summons the power of Vander to go after your poor soul! 
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:52 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
Check out the rescent thread "An intelligent comment about ELP" |
Oh, okay, I get it. Please accept my apologies for the Magma dig, it was a knee jerk reaction...
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:51 |
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:51 |
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Check out the rescent thread "An intelligent comment about ELP"
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:50 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
Kind of... well they are the third worst band of all time |
I'm sorry, is this a joke? If so, I apologize for my Magma joke. 
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:49 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
Kind of... well they are the third worst band of all time |
Well, in any case, they're better than Magma 
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:46 |
Kind of... well they are the third worst band of all time
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:43 |
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That's demeaning to ELP.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:39 |
They made they're own label!?!?
Does this mean ELP is one of the first indie bands?
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:38 |
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Uh-huh.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:32 |
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ELP ownes manticore?
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:31 |
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Ivan, they've actually had rights to their songs the whole time: They founded Manticore Records before the release of Tarkus, and released all of their material since then on the label. They run the record label, so they had rights to the songs since they were written. Everything from Love Beach to soda commercials to those godawful remixes has been entirely their fault, not contractual obligations or money-hungry record executives.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 22:27 |
Garion81 wrote:
Your all assuming ELP has any rights of refusal over such things. I am sure like many other 70's musicians they do not own rights to the song nor does the band get any royalties except as songwriters. There was a Subaru commercial using Dust in the Wind last year and the band Kansas had no say in its use. It was all Sony and they received all the royalties and fees for its use except of a small royalty to Kerry Livgren as the songwriter.
Before you accuse research. |
No Garion, that's not correct (I had to disagree with you for one time at least  )
Once a few years ago I made a whhole post about the USA and British law of copyright and the issue is not so simple.
The copyright is owned by the author for a perid that may extend to 67 or 70 years after his death, the song is credited to the author, and only the names who appear beside the song, own the music and lyrics.
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Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988
1988 CHAPTER 48
(1) In this Part “published edition”, in the context of copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition, means a published edition of the whole or any part of one or more literary, dramatic or musical works.
9 Authorship of work
(1) In this Part “author”, in relation to a work, means the person who creates it.
(...).
13 Duration of copyright in sound recordings and films
(1) Copyright in a sound recording or film expires—
(a) at the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which it is made, or
(b) if it is released before the end of that period, 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which it is released.
. |
This is UK but in USA is 67 years if I'm not wrong.
But not everything is so esomple, the publisher must have siome rights, so the publisjher is entitled to be the copyright holder for a term of 25 years after the date of publication.
| 15 Duration of copyright in typographical arrangement of published editions
Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition expires at the end of the period of 25 years from the end of the calendar year in which the edition was first published. |
In other words, during the first 25 years, the publisher has several rights on the recording, but that term expires (again, this is the UK Law for the case of ELP, but the one in USA is almost identical) and returns to the Owner.
That's why Fragile Copyright appears
UK November 1, 1971 Atlantic LP/CS
US January 4, 1972 Atlantic LP/CS/8T SD/CS/TP7211
In other words Atlantic was owner of the Fragikle songs copyright in 1971 and 1972
But if you check Keys to Ascention released in 1996 the copyright of Roundaboutt from Fragile appears:
© 1971 Yessongs / Topographic Music, Ltd / Rondor Music (London) Ltd.
So after 25 years exactly, the rights returned to Yes.
So most surely ELP has the right over their songs.
Iván
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 18:39 |
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Except that ELP had formed their own record label by 1973, thus they had all rights to everything from Tarkus on.
Edited by rileydog22 - September 27 2007 at 18:40
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: September 27 2007 at 12:41 |
Your all assuming ELP has any rights of refusal over such things. I am sure like many other 70's musicians they do not own rights to the song nor does the band get any royalties except as songwriters. There was a Subaru commercial using Dust in the Wind last year and the band Kansas had no say in its use. It was all Sony and they received all the royalties and fees for its use except of a small royalty to Kerry Livgren as the songwriter.
Before you accuse research.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 19:07 |
bluetailfly wrote:
These responses that are along the lines of, “get over it, the band is just putting prog rock out there to turn on a new generation of fans” are missing the point. That’s not why the band’s is doing it. They're doing it for money and in turn allowing a corporation to use their music to sell a product. Turning on new fans or any similar rationalization is a side benefit of it; but that’s not the reason their doing it.
ELP didn’t use the music for Dr. Pepper ads when BSS came out. Nor did they for a long time after that. And there was a reason for that. They didn’t want their music associated with Dr. Pepper or any other food product advertisement. And I think that’s because they believed that the music’s cultural importance as prog rock art wasn’t commensurate with junk food advertising. And I believe they were right in not allowing it to be used in that way. However, times changed and they changed their minds and decided that now it was okay to do it. I don’t like that decision. I value that music and believe they sold the music and its cultural legacy short.
I know I don’t own the music. I’m aware of that. ELP can do what they want with it. It’s their right. I just don’t like serious music used in this way--whether it’s Beethoven’s Ninth or Close to the Edge or A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers or Reich’s Trains or Karn Evel 9. I believe it undermines the credibility of the art and artists involved.
We’re inundated with this type of thing in our society today, so it's sometimes difficult to perceive how advertising is cheapening and trivalising serious art when it's juxtaposed with a product Madison Avenue is trying to sell you. It’s one of the reasons I try to avoid being exposed to advertising as much as possible.
This Dr. Pepper ad is only one instance, so it’s easy to dismiss. But I guess what I’m responding to here is that I don’t like the potential trend. I wouldn’t appreciate the prog rock classics being used to sell Frito’s and Slim Jims. |
I used to be stringently anti-ad rock. But then I mellowed out. Mostly because I realized that for most intelligent people, the music played during an ad is not the determining factor when it comes to making purchases. Cadillac can use the entire Zep canon in their ads, I still will not buy one of their cars. Er, well, maybe mostly 'cause I couldn't afford one 
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 22:56 |
These responses that are along the lines of, “get over it, the band is just putting prog rock out there to turn on a new generation of fans” are missing the point. That’s not why the band’s is doing it. They're doing it for money and in turn allowing a corporation to use their music to sell a product. Turning on new fans or any similar rationalization is a side benefit of it; but that’s not the reason their doing it.
ELP didn’t use the music for Dr. Pepper ads when BSS came out. Nor did they for a long time after that. And there was a reason for that. They didn’t want their music associated with Dr. Pepper or any other food product advertisement. And I think that’s because they believed that the music’s cultural importance as prog rock art wasn’t commensurate with junk food advertising. And I believe they were right in not allowing it to be used in that way. However, times changed and they changed their minds and decided that now it was okay to do it. I don’t like that decision. I value that music and believe they sold the music and its cultural legacy short.
I know I don’t own the music. I’m aware of that. ELP can do what they want with it. It’s their right. I just don’t like serious music used in this way--whether it’s Beethoven’s Ninth or Close to the Edge or A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers or Reich’s Trains or Karn Evel 9. I believe it undermines the credibility of the art and artists involved.
We’re inundated with this type of thing in our society today, so it's sometimes difficult to perceive how advertising is cheapening and trivalising serious art when it's juxtaposed with a product Madison Avenue is trying to sell you. It’s one of the reasons I try to avoid being exposed to advertising as much as possible.
This Dr. Pepper ad is only one instance, so it’s easy to dismiss. But I guess what I’m responding to here is that I don’t like the potential trend. I wouldn’t appreciate the prog rock classics being used to sell Frito’s and Slim Jims.
Edited by bluetailfly - September 20 2007 at 00:42
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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NO!!!!!!!!!! ELP sells out..
