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Rivertree

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Posted: May 19 2007 at 14:12

Excellent work, Eugene Clap

good to see that we have a Cyrillic expert amongst us ....

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Posted: May 19 2007 at 11:37

Wait... I have the correct titles in Russian in the editing area, they are written in Cyrillic.

I'll copy them here. If they are dislayed correctly -- fine, they may be added (as they are or transliterated). If they are not displayed correctly, I'll transliterate them.

1. Пристегните Ремни Безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Цепочка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ольстер / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчерашний День / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ночь / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Марсианские Хроники I / Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Возвращение II / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Блюз "Каприз" / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старинная Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)

The title of the album is: Autograf 1 / Автограф 1980-82.

Your word?

Edited by Fassbinder - May 19 2007 at 11:39

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Posted: May 19 2007 at 11:29

1. Use of Babel Fish leads to severe errors in translation. For example, "Martian Chronicles" is translated as "Хроники Martian", wich is hardly acceptable, since it should be translated as "Марсианские Хроники". Moreover, "Pt. I" is translated as "Пинта I", which is quite ridiculous -- "пинта" means "pint" ... of course, "pint" may be abbreviated to "Pt.", but, obviously, it should be "Part I", i.e. "Часть I" in Russian. There are additional errors too.

Conclusion I: Babel Fish translation shouln't be used.

2. First of all, we should decide what do we prefer -- original Russian text, transliteration, or English translation.

2a. The way to obtain correct Russian titles is either to ask the album submitter (I don't own any of those albums) or to find them via Internet.

2b. I can easily make transliteration, but, then again, I need to have the correct titles in Russian. I wouldn't like to translate titles from English to Russian, since the result will be, perhaps, more satisfactory than through Babel Fish, but still not fully acceptable.

Conclusion II: Anyway, we need original titles in Russian.

Joolz

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Posted: May 19 2007 at 08:53

Rivertree wrote:

Summary: very insecure - but what altenatives do we have?
- the use of a transliteration?
- neither Cyrillic nor transliteration?

Perhaps an expert in the relevant language(s) could be asked to do some transliterations ... Eugene can probably do some of them ... I would be happy to do the updates if they can be posted in this forum

Rivertree

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Posted: May 19 2007 at 08:21

I tried to translate the cryptic part of the tracklisting with Babel Fish assuming this were the authentic titles

Autograf 1/Автограф 1980-82

1. Прикрепите Ремени безопасности / Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. Ливень / The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 лет / 2000 Years (6:54)
4. Тропка Дней / A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ирландия, Ulster / Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Вчера / Yesterday (4:00)
7. День И Ноча / Day And Night (5:28)
8. Монолог / Monologue (4:38)
9. Хроники Martian, Пинта Ii1/ Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Хроники Martian, Пинта II - Возвращение / Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Син 'Caprice' / Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. Старая Баллада / An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. Корабль / The Ship (6:14)

Doing this I run into some problems:

1) Not every cryptic expression could be translated (track 11) so I used the english version
2) existing english translation differs - track 2 is translated to 'Shower' - track 10 is translated to 'Return II'
3) track 5 contains the name of a region of Ireland and IMO cannot be translated in russian/Cyrillic
4) track 6 - 'Yesterday' re-converted to Cyriilic results in a shorter expression than the original

Summary: very insecure - but what altenatives do we have?
- the use of a transliteration?
- neither Cyrillic nor transliteration?

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Posted: May 18 2007 at 15:05

Usually, I add the text using the Character Map. Sometimes I copy / paste from the posted messages here, but mostly -- through the Character Map.

Hence, I think that the problem is not in the procedure (assuming that Julian uses the same procedure), but in my computer.

If this is really the case, I should avoid editing problematic pages (fortunately, most non-plain Latin characters (diacriticised letters) are displayed properly after my editing).

Eugene

Edited by Fassbinder - May 18 2007 at 15:06

Rivertree

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Posted: May 18 2007 at 10:05

Joolz wrote:

result ... see for yourself ...

Москва: Live Russia

Therefore it must be either a problem with Fassbinder's computer settings
or with the procedure he is adding the text ...

Joolz

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Posted: May 18 2007 at 09:00

result ... see for yourself ...

Москва: Live Russia

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Posted: May 18 2007 at 07:20

Julian, please, look at this page: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4342

Then enter the editing area and try to insert Москва instead of Ìîñêâà.

What the result is?

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Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:43

Fassbinder wrote:

What do you mean by "does", Uwe?

First of all, I doubt Julian sees those encoded signs when he's situated in the editing area. I'm almost sure that he sees all the titles written properly.

As far as I'm concerned, he never had troubles like those I usually have. But I don't know what will be the result if he inserts some Cyrillic characters (for example, if he adds the title "Москва" (written in Cyrillic letters)).

Taking the Cyrillic letters from the Windows Character Map ....

Москва

This is what they look like on the character map, in the editor and displayed .... the character map says these letters are Cyrillic .... and not an accent in sight Confused

How do we go about converting all the entries in these scripts?

Rivertree

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 16:06

I suggest to send PMs to continue this subject ... Smile

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:21

What do you mean by "does", Uwe?

First of all, I doubt Julian sees those encoded signs when he's situated in the editing area. I'm almost sure that he sees all the titles written properly.

Rivertree

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 14:50

If Joolz does exactly the same as you - what is the result?

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 14:47

Fassbinder wrote:

What do you see?

Just the same as you ...

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 14:11

1. Autograf

Now, compare please the main page of Autograf: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2335 with some unlegible signs in the album titles ( 25 ëåò ñïóñòÿ. Þáèëåéíûé êîíöåðò / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert(Live, 2005) , for example)

with this: 25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (copied from the editing area).

Even if one doesn't understand Russian (s)he can easily tell the normal (though unfamiliar) alphaber from some encoded signs.

2. Aquarium

But if you'll go to the Aquarium main page, you'll see quite legible titles: День Серебра [Day Of Silver] (Studio Album, 1984) , for example. It doesn't differ from what appears in the editing area.

That's why I wondered how did The Miracle manage to insert Cyrillic letters without their fatal encoding after the updating.

3. ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD

To crown it all, look at this:

That's how a certain group is displayed in the PA pages: ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD.

And that's how I see it in the editing area: Дlgarnas Trдdgеrd.

(A single example of the hundreds of similar encoding).

Edited by Fassbinder - May 17 2007 at 14:18

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 13:44

Look at this please: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4342.

I see Ìîñêâà: Live Russia(Live, 1990) .

What do you see?

And I only replaced "Mockba" with "Москва".

Edited by Fassbinder - May 17 2007 at 14:16

Rivertree

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:06

that's really crazy - I made some tests but couldn't force this phenomenon ...

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:25

I mean, it is not difficult to type them (or copy them). I wonder how they are still legible.

I remember how I tried to change the title of an Asia album, called smth. like Live in Moscow, but with the name of the city written in Russian -- МОСКВА (all letters are in upper case), as it appears on the album cover. I typed it (or, maybe, I added those letter from the Character Map -- the way I usually use to add diacriticised letters), but they got encoded into some unlegible signs after the editing, like those in the Avtograf discography.

Rivertree

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 08:51

Fassbinder wrote:

And I still wonder how The Miracle managed to type the Aquarium titles in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, quite miracuously (pun intended).

Maybe I don't really understand why you are wondering? Ouch

But what The Miracle managed is to copy the cyriilic tile of the album from a website and to add some typed letters in latin.

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Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:50

What the point of the test is, Uwe?

By the way, "Fasten seat belts" is "Пристегните привязные ремни" (or simply "Пристегните ремни") rather than "Прикрепите поясы безопасности".