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bhikkhu 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
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Points: 5109
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 Posted: March 15 2007 at 15:07 |
 cmidkiff wrote:
4.- Boston is not Prog - so what, half of the bands on this site are not prog
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I won't even bother to address your other comments, but this one is ridiculous. Have you been through the database? Proto and Related make up a small percentage of the artists listed on this site. Try going through just one of the sub-genres sometime.
Those of us involved with the content here, work very hard, and put in a lot of hours. All of this is on a volunteer basis. We do it out of love for the music, and we take it seriously. Every addition is considered with care. Collaborators from many teams will weigh in on just one candidate. So, don't insult us by making generalizations.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 14:53 |
cmidkiff wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band - so what
Prog Related is for bands that influenced or were influenced by Prog bands and have SOME Prog elements
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band - how do you know?
Because I listen music, no band claims Boston as their MAIN influence (At least not any 100% Prog band that I know), and we all know Boston was not influentialñ for Prog.
What's next? Toto? Europe? Eagles?
3.- Any other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston - sure it does, it sets precedence.
Every band is added BECAUSE OIF THEIR OWN CAREER, this is not a trial where precedence is a valid argument.
4.- Boston is not Prog - so what, half of the bands on this site are not prog
OK, lets add The Bee Gees, N'Sync and Britney because they are not Prog and according to you 50% of the bands here are not Prog...The Owners, Adms, Team Member, Collaborators and Members have expressed repeatedly that "If X why not Y band" is not a valid argument.
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related - if you use the same definition of "Prog Related" that got Queen, The Doors, ect. here, then it is.
"If X is here then why not Y" is not a valid arguent, as I said before, if you step over dog sh!t with your right foot, you don't step with the left one also to make it even.
The Doors is a Psychedelic band (100%), Queen has at least two Prog albums, Boston has nothing, and even if the first ones were not Prog, we should not fall in the same mistakes to make the problem and incoherences worst.
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS - yea right, like thats happening
Then give a solution, don't make the problem worst.
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog. - not according to this site and the other bands that are here}
Yes according to the definition (Read it) and the mistakes that could have been done before don't justify a new one.
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PROG RELATED
Rock and Pop Bands and Artists after 1970 who were not truly “prog” (as that term is generally and broadly defined, even by the site), but who were clearly not “mainstream” or simply “rock” bands.
Boston was simply an AOR Mainstream Rock band, nothing else
A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock.
This is not the case of Boston, they were never Prog or turned into Prog or were uinfluenced by Prog.
Even though the music by these artists is sometimes unrelated it had things in common with prog music in that it was very structured and even adventurous, sometimes hard or heavy, sometimes mellow, strong melodies, good hooks are an integral part of most of the material. Sometimes these artists pioneered other rock genres.
Again...not the case of Boston
Though most of these artist can't really be considered progressive themselves, their relation to progressive music is not to be underestimated.
There is no relation between Prog and Boston, this completely destroys their case....If they ever had one.
Garion81
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8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR). - thats right, they shouldn't be here at all. Or maybe we should have "Almost Prog Related" as well
Yeah, then lets make almost Symphonic, almost Neo Prog, almost Rock and almost musicians.
I like your solution, take out all Prog Related bands (ignoring that some of them have strong ties with Prog or accept anything, open the doors and allow everything, sorry but this is not rational, we need copmmon sense to decide what is Prog Related and wha is not.
If we accept Boston, lets change the name to "Prog, Almost Prog and Almost Related to Almost Prog Archives".
Iván
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 13:54 |
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see anything prog at all about Boston (although they do rock.)
Not to open up an old can of worms, but everything on Queen II is far
more proggy than anything Boston ever did.
p.s. Dio rules!
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Not only Queen II, but most of their 70's albums.
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:55 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
cmidkiff wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band - so what
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band - how do you know?
3.- Ay other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston - sure it does, it sets precedence.
4.- Boston is not Prog - so what, half of the bands on this site are not prog
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related - if you use the same definition of "Prog Related" that got Queen, The Doors, ect. here, then it is.
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS - yea right, like thats happening
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog. - not according to this site and the other bands that are here
8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR). - thats right, they shouldn't be here at all. Or maybe we should have "Almost Prog Related" as well
Iván
I see absolutely no reason.
Iván
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I would like to remind you that the bands added to Prog Related and Proto Prog aren't added on a whim.They are very extensively discussed and often times hotly debated among the collaborators,sometimes for years(as in the case of LZ,who were being debated back when I first became a Collab).
All additions to these genres require the approval of the Admin Team,and some of the bands here are added at the direct order of the people who OWN this site.And if they want them here,they will be added here. |
Just because the owner wants a band here doesn't make them any more or less prog. Besides at this point the owner is probably more interested in web traffic (advertising revenue) then prog accuracy.
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cmidkiff
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:43 |
cmidkiff wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band - so what
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band - how do you know?
3.- Ay other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston - sure it does, it sets precedence.
4.- Boston is not Prog - so what, half of the bands on this site are not prog
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related - if you use the same definition of "Prog Related" that got Queen, The Doors, ect. here, then it is.
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS - yea right, like thats happening
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog. - not according to this site and the other bands that are here
8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR). - thats right, they shouldn't be here at all. Or maybe we should have "Almost Prog Related" as well
Iván
I see absolutely no reason.
Iván
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I would like to remind you that the bands added to Prog Related and Proto Prog aren't added on a whim.They are very extensively discussed and often times hotly debated among the collaborators,sometimes for years(as in the case of LZ,who were being debated back when I first became a Collab).
All additions to these genres require the approval of the Admin Team,and some of the bands here are added at the direct order of the people who OWN this site.And if they want them here,they will be added here.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 12:15 |
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I think they only have one proggish song, Longtime/Foreplay, but besides that, it´s just good melodic rock.
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thellama73
Collaborator
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 11:44 |
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I don't see anything prog at all about Boston (although they do rock.)
Not to open up an old can of worms, but everything on Queen II is far
more proggy than anything Boston ever did.
p.s. Dio rules!
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 11:37 |
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Their two first albums are quite pleasant, but nowhere near Prog.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 10:37 |
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Definitely yes. Its what Prog Related is all about.
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 10:35 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band - so what
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band - how do you know?
3.- Ay other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston - sure it does, it sets precedence.
4.- Boston is not Prog - so what, half of the bands on this site are not prog
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related - if you use the same definition of "Prog Related" that got Queen, The Doors, ect. here, then it is.
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS - yea right, like thats happening
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog. - not according to this site and the other bands that are here
8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR). - thats right, they shouldn't be here at all. Or maybe we should have "Almost Prog Related" as well
Iván
I see absolutely no reason.
Iván
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cmidkiff
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 09:23 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band
3.- Ay other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston
4.- Boston is not Prog
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog.
8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR).
Iván
I see absolutely no reason.
Iván
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My thoughts exactly Ivan.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: March 15 2007 at 02:36 |
Pantacruel:
1.- Boston is not influential for any Prog band
2.- Boston is not influenced directly by any Prog band
3.- Ay other non Prog added before doesn't justify the inclusion of Boston
4.- Boston is not Prog
5.- Boston is not even Prog Related
6.- This is a Prog site, so we must priorize REALLY PROG BANDS
7.- Prog Related bands bneed to have some relevance in Prog.
8.- We shouldn't priorize Prog Related inclusions (Despite the fact that Boston is not even PR).
Iván
I see absolutely no reason.
Iván
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 22:50 |
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Avoiding the temptation to include some of the "elitist" opinions, I vote that Boston does deserve to be included, at least in the prog-related sub-genre.
Piece of Mind, & Foreplay/Long Time especially were standout tracks that were ahead of their time, not only sonically, but in the arrangements. I mean, I've read in some threads of the need for differing tempos, time changes, certain song lengths etc... Not every group here has them all, all the time, eh ...
For those of you who may silently be objecting because you perceive them as a "commercial" AOR act, take this in consideration : most, if not all of the music, was recorded in Tom Scholz's basement by lonely ol' Tom, with Brad Delp's vocals dubbed in. Although the label insisted on Tom's reworking them (i.e. remixing), the final result was the original recordings were the ones used on the album.
So, yes, you win the argument "is it prog"; but that's why PA includes more than a few subgenres, like Prog-related. If there's an aspect of a band that can relate it to the genre, it should be included. Nobody's being forced to go through the subgenres they don't like. Remember, there is some dissension as to RIO/Avant-Garde's inclusion as "prog". But it has its' own "prog" elements, even if they are not necessarily "pure" prog.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 19:50 |
cmidkiff wrote:
If The Doors and Led Zeppelin are here then of coarse Boston should be here. |
Yeah, because I have a hard time telling those three bands apart. 
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 14:12 |
cmidkiff wrote:
If The Doors and Led Zeppelin are here then of coarse Boston should be here. |
Ahh the old X&Y arguement again...
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Beauty will save the world.
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 14:11 |
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If The Doors and Led Zeppelin are here then of coarse Boston should be here.
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cmidkiff
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 14:05 |
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The one thing I've ever heard from Boston that even approaches prog is 'Foreplay', and even that's an introductory passage to another AOR song 'Long Time'. Great band, but they simply have no place here, imho.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
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Points: 5109
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 11:41 |
E-Dub wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
Not even close. They don't strike me as progressive in the least. For that matter, neither are Zeppelin or Queen. I guess Boston wouldn't be a huge step in the recent trend of incorperating every single classic rock band into the Prog Related section.
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I agree. I voted 'yes' because of the others inclusion. I think what finally did it for me was allowing Split Enz to be prog related. If anything, The Cure are a ton more prog than they are, but I don't even consider them prog related.
E |
Have you heard Split Enz early albums? I would have agreed with you until I heard "Mental Notes." It's nothing like their '80s stuff. I also think the Cure deserve some consideration. But the stigma about '80s bands obscures objectivity.
Boston may have had some leanings in a prog direction, but a few decent keyboard parts do not make prog.
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 03:36 |
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There is that one smokin' cut on the first album-- it's a semi-classical instrumental with organ and guitar... sweet. Forget the name of it
Edited by Atavachron - March 14 2007 at 03:38
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: March 14 2007 at 03:33 |
Alright, I'll try to steer us back on track...
I myself cannot truly comment on Boston, as, as usualy, I don't feel my knowledge is satisfactory. I don't know if they caught any progresive minded trends early or later on, if their music is lenghty and complex leaning, or if any of their albums were conceptual(although, I still state that "Peace of Mind" was a pretty sweet song. Dio obviously wrote it).
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Boston are they prog related ?
