Edenbridge falls victim to witchhunt

Tarcisio Moura wrote: Since the very first time I heard this band they were considered prog metal.

Then simply post a list of websites which consider them to be prog metal, so we can see for ourselves.

Tarcisio Moura wrote: Yes, that´s really what scares me. I don´t agree, much less was I convinced. I still wonder if we are talking about the same band at all. To call Edenbridge a straight power metal band is... well, I don´t want to go any further, all I say is that I  can´t think of one heavy metal fan who will agree with that remark. Read my replies to them. best wishes Tarcísio B. Moura

For the record: I never said that they were a "straight" Power Metal band ... but the prog elements which their music undoubtedly contains are simply not enough for me to "recommend" their inclusion. If you take any of their albums and compare it to any Rhapsody album, you'll find that the Rhapsody album is much more complex in songwriting and arrangement. And Rhapsody is a band which is under constant attack or criticism in the archives ...

On my website I have 6 steps of progressiveness:

0: Not progressive
20%: Slightly progressive
40%: Moderately progressive (Prog-Related)
60%: Progressive
80%: Very progressive
100%: Extremely progressive

In all honesty Edenbridge - for me - are well below the 40% mark ... and Rhapsody are right between the 40% and 60%, it depends on whether the mere combination of classical music and power metal is progressive to you or not. If not, then you could even say that Rhapsody are not progressive at all - it's all a question of how you define prog.

So: If a metal band with a female, semi-operatic vocalist, strings and the occasional time signature change is prog to you, then so is Edenbridge. To me it is "just" symphonic metal, which can be highly enjoyable too.

"Not prog" does not mean that it's bad!

Tarcisio Moura wrote: micky wrote: man almighty.. people need to get a grip.... accusations and recriminations are flying around this site these days... next thing..hahahah..... I'll be accused of working in the background making 'dodgy decisions for their own ends or for some unexplained and unfathomable reason'.  Not that anyone in a stable rational frame of mind  would ever think that. As a member of the Art Rock team that rejected Edenbridge...  it sounded like power metal to me... and that has no place here in Art Rock.. or IMO ProgArchives.  Nothing personal.. or underhanded about it.  It wasn't even bad music... just not prog IMO and the teams opinion. Dear Micky: It is only sad that it takes a forum like this to get some simple answers like yours as to why the band was rejected. I got no feedback at all as to whether they were approved or not as an Art Rock was not for a friend who told me that in a PM. You just wait and wait. We are left on our own. And even if you do have a forum about it you may not get at least a convincing reason. Oh, man, it was much easier some time ago... But I guess those times are over. Thanks anyway, MIcky. Tarcísio B. Moura

sorry ... we just do the best we can.. and call them as we see them.

man almighty.. people need to get a grip....

accusations and recriminations are flying around this site these days... next thing..hahahah.....

I'll be accused of working in the background making 'dodgy decisions for their own ends or for some unexplained and unfathomable reason'.  Not that anyone in a stable rational frame of mind  would ever think that.

As a member of the Art Rock team that rejected Edenbridge... 

it sounded like power metal to me... and that has no place here in Art Rock.. or IMO ProgArchives.  Nothing personal.. or underhanded about it.  It wasn't even bad music... just not prog IMO and the teams opinion.


Edited by micky - February 21 2007 at 19:33

laplace wrote: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=1843 no slight against yourself or the specialists here but I side with the opinions of a metal site when concerning prog metal. the archives themselves do not consider Edenbridge metal so I'm forced to agree. Do try to understand that this isn't a witchhunt but a mere difference of opinion. edit: please try to ignore the heavyhanded mods who feel the need to interject the same opinions multiple times into the thread to the detriment of reasonable discussion. it's a curse the world over.

Hello Laplace:

Thansk for your opinion. But really I can´t agree. Since the very first time I heard this band they were considered prog metal. They do have both prog and metal elements.But my concerns are not only mine, they are of many people who had the same opinions but were afraid to say it in fear of what some people would react. Given some of the feedback I got today I guess they were quite right. But someone had to do it.. I´ll be very glad if I´m wrong. I still believe in democratic discussions and that we can learn a lot from it.

Best wishes

Tarcísio B. Moura

Tony R wrote: progismylife wrote: I seem to side with Tarcisio on this one. Not having heard any of the music mentioned it seems a bad case of miscommunication. It also appears to me that maybe Tarcisio feels he did not get an explanation about why they were rejected from PA. From reading hte posts of this and the other thread started by Tarcisio I do not see a reason given for why they were rejected. It seems to be comparing bands and saying its almost prog but not prog with any backing u of the opinion or specific examples. And Tony's post  "You are the kind of egocentric ingrate that will ultimately be the ruin of this wonderful website." is a bit over the top I might add. Of course it makes sense why he would answer like that with all the stuff he deals with being an admin after all. It just seems to be a confusing mess that has been made here.   what on earth are you rambling on about?   http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33292&PID=2342499     From time to time certain members appear whose only agenda here is to get a certain band "added" as a Prog band. This time its Edenbridge, in the past it has been others. These people post pages and pages of type demanding a rethink, a recount or that their "single" opinion is more weighty than a team od experts.   In plain language what our friend here is doing is having a tantrum or trolling us.   Trust me.

I did read that thread Tony. And I did say I seem to side with Tarcisio. Not fully but seem. And after rereading the thread (this one and the other one) I can see some things I didn't notice before.

I do trust you Tony.

Oh well I'll just leave this thread and move on to other things. Hopefully other people can do this too.

Dear  mr R:

Well, if expressing my thoughts is acting like a child, then I am one. I´m really sorry for giving such a bad impression. I´ll try to deal with it.

Best regards

Tarcísio B. Moura 

I seem to side with Tarcisio on this one. Not having heard any of the music mentioned it seems a bad case of miscommunication. It also appears to me that maybe Tarcisio feels he did not get an explanation about why they were rejected from PA. From reading hte posts of this and the other thread started by Tarcisio I do not see a reason given for why they were rejected. It seems to be comparing bands and saying its almost prog but not prog with any backing u of the opinion or specific examples. And Tony's post

 "You are the kind of egocentric ingrate that will ultimately be the ruin of this wonderful website."

is a bit over the top I might add. Of course it makes sense why he would answer like that with all the stuff he deals with being an admin after all. It just seems to be a confusing mess that has been made here.  Also notice that the title of this thread doesn't help much.


Edited by progismylife - February 21 2007 at 18:46

Tarcisio Moura wrote: If you think that expelling me and others from the forum (or the site, for the matter) is the solution, then you´re only cofirming our suspicions.  I let myself be crucified because  I want to voice what I fear. I know it won´t score many points to a lot of people.  But, please, don´t say this is some personal attack. It is not. This is a question. It was painful to write it. I urge people to stop hatemail and write to the forum to tell whatever they think. Even at the risk of a great misunderstanding it´s better to say it out loud and got an answer than to fear being criticised.

Tony R wrote: Am I alone in getting totally fed up with this kind of childish reaction to NOT GETTING YOUR OWN WAY? I am beginning to lose count of the times I have read an insinuation that seems to imply that certain individuals are working in the background making dodgy decisions for their own ends or for some unexplained and unfathomable reason. Enough! There are no witch hunts and quite frankly I think that we need to address this kind of attack officially in the rules. How dare you make such a casually insulting and derogatory remark!   It is perfectly OK to suggest that a mistake has been made, even accuse people of being incompetent (as long as you give very good reasons) but to suggest that some kind of impropriety has taken place, some nefarious blocking of certain bands or type of bands is totally unacceptable.   To be perfectly frank, I personally dont want people like you on this forum, but luckily for you and your type its not about what I want. You are the kind of egocentric ingrate that will ultimately be the ruin of this wonderful website.   47 year old psychologist eh? I give in.....Edenbridge prey to a witch hunt. Very mature.   You familiar with the word "libel"?

Dear Tony R:

Yes, I know what it means. I am really sorry if I upset you. That was not my intention, neither was to offend anybody in this site. As I wrote in my post and you should read it, I really love PA, I learned a lot here, and I am very grateful for many things. For weeks I did not know if I should post my opinion or not. I tried very hard to be heard, to talk to everyone I could about this subject matter. And got no feedback. Yes, I am hurt and I think It was an unfair decision. I only voiced mine and some people´s  opinion. As you said, I´m not the only one. There´s been a lot of talking lately. I can be wrong, ok. Call me naive to think I could speak this out. It would be a lot easier for me to shut up and keep my suspicions to myself. But I thought I should speak my mind, that this could be done, since I tell no names and I try to be respectful to everyone. If I failed on this subject I can´t do anything but to apologise.

But I really thought someone had to speak about this subject, even if it stinks. A democractic site should not fear or hate a sincere opinion.  If you think that expelling me and others from the forum (or the site, for the matter) is the solution, then you´re only cofirming our suspicions.  I let myself be crucified because  I want to voice what I fear. I know it won´t score many points to a lot of people.  But, please, don´t say this is some personal attack. It is not. This is a question. It was painful to write it. I urge people to stop hatemail and write to the forum to tell whatever they think. Even at the risk of a great misunderstanding it´s better to say it out loud and got an answer than to fear being criticised.

I really wish I´m wrong all the way.

Long live  Progahcives

Respectfully

Tarcísio B. Moura