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Hangedman 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1261
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 Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:56 |
Look I tried to take this in an interesting direction and i was ignored, but im going to take a stab at it again. Simply if by the criteria argued that radiohead is prog, why isnt jimi hendrix prog, if you want more description look at my last post. (page 3)
p.s. NO I AM NOT saying hendrix should be on the archives.
p.p.s. (Yes I have heard most of radiohead's albums, and i enjoy Hail To The Thief probably the most. I would like to just turn this thread from a simple YES THEY ARE, NO THEY ARENT thread into maybe a worthwhile discussion.)
Edit where the heck do i find them on the archives anyways?
Edited by Hangedman
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:53 |
 Sweetnighter wrote:
Peter wrote:
Sweetnighter didn't wrote:
Useful_Idiot wrote:
[QUOTE=ivan_2068]But back to the point, Sweetnighter did you said a Punk band can play Progressive music???
Punk was born suposedly to destroy what progressive did to music, they did music based in 2 or 3 chords, they can't play progressive rock unless they do a cover album.
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This is true in theory, but if you need proof that there are punk bands who go beyond it, download the song "Marquee Moon" by Television (which clocks in at over 10 minutes and has extended soloing that would make Yes jealous) or "The Decline" by NOFX (which clocks in at nearly 20, and has tons of different sections that sound totally different from each other, and even some soloing). Or listen to The Mars Volta, who have a strong punk aspect in their music, but are undeniably prog.
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 Musical categories (a concept of concern more to critics and fans, than artists), like musical tastes in general, are highly fluid and subjective. What I call disco, you may label funk, what I call repetitive, agressive, posturing crap, you may call rap. Whatever.
I'm not sure just how I'd classify Television, but I'd never say punk. For the record, I have put them on my "new wave" -- whatever that means -- compilations. How about just good ROCK?
When I want to review an album on the Archives that I don't really consider to be prog, I review it as MUSIC, plain and simple, and give it a fitting "star" rating that does not necessarily bow to the artificial constraints of the descriptions appended to those ratings. Those words are someone else's, and fit their definitions, not mine, and are subjective as well: "a masterpiece of progressive rock" -- what the heck does that mean? "Masterpiece" is a subjective term, and there seems to be roughly as many conceptions of "progressive" as there are members here.
These debates, with, for example, some pleased to welcome Radiohead to the Archives, others outraged, and still more indifferent, will never, ever end.
Get over it: write your reviews, state your opinion, but don't look for consensus -- it's IMPOSSIBLE.
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Hahaha I didn't write that!! How did I get misquoted??
I don't even know who the Television are! 
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Sweetnighter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1298
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:49 |
Peter wrote:
Sweetnighter wrote:
Useful_Idiot wrote:
[QUOTE=ivan_2068]But back to the point,
Sweetnighter did you said a Punk band can play Progressive music??? Punk was born suposedly to destroy what progressive did to music,
they did music based in 2 or 3 chords, they can't play progressive
rock unless they do a cover album.
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This is true in theory, but if you need proof
that there are punk bands who go beyond it, download the song "Marquee
Moon" by Television (which clocks in at over 10 minutes and has
extended soloing that would make Yes jealous) or "The Decline"
by NOFX (which clocks in at nearly 20, and has tons of different
sections that sound totally different from each other, and even some
soloing). Or listen to The Mars Volta, who have a strong punk
aspect in their music, but are undeniably prog.
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Musical categories (a concept of concern more to critics and fans, than artists), like musical tastes in general, are highly fluid and subjective. What I call disco, you may label funk, what I call repetitive, agressive, posturing crap, you may call rap. Whatever.
I'm not sure just how I'd classify Television, but I'd never say punk. For the record, I have put them on my "new wave" -- whatever that means -- compilations. How about just good ROCK?
When I want to review an album on the Archives that I don't really
consider to be prog, I review it as MUSIC, plain and simple, and give
it a fitting "star" rating that does not necessarily bow to the artificial constraints of the descriptions appended to those ratings. Those words are someone else's, and fit their definitions, not mine, and are subjective as well: "a masterpiece of progressive rock" -- what the heck does that mean? "Masterpiece" is a subjective term, and there seems to be roughly as many conceptions of "progressive" as there are members here.
These debates, with, for example, some pleased to welcome Radiohead to the Archives, others outraged, and still more indifferent, will never, ever end.
Get over it: write your reviews, state your opinion, but don't look for consensus -- it's IMPOSSIBLE.
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Hahaha I didn't write that!! How did I get misquoted??
I don't even know who the Television are!
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I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
"Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:49 |
| Pavlov's Dog is a mistake, not Radiohead! |
Why, because you don't like Pavlov's Dog and you like Radiohead?
Pavlovs Dog is recognized by all the progressive community as a neo progressive band and Radiohead is considered an Indie Alternative band by most people.
Pavlov's Dog is included in every respectable progressive enciclopedia or web page, Radiohead not.
Ok, Radiohead is in and we will have to accept it even when a good part of the forum disagrees, but to deny Pavlov's Dog is a Progressive band is being at least a bit narrow minded.
Iván
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slipperman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 217
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:36 |
Pavlov's Dog is a mistake, not Radiohead!
imagine, prog fans being narrow minded...goes against the whole idea, no? I'm all for upholding a high standard for prog bands...just not a narrow one...oh well, we've all got our opinions, and each one is as worthy as the next...and I guess enough people felt Radiohead belonged. Fair.
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...it is real...it is Rael...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 22:13 |
No way Prog' Archives lost it's integrity because of Radiohead, but I do believe it's a big mistake.
Iván
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 03 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 916
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 21:28 |
No, Useful Idiot, you are not
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"O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love
'n you should have us all
O' you should have us fall"
"Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart
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Bryan
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 01 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3013
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 21:22 |
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Am I the only one bothered by people repeatedly saying the site has lost its integrity by adding radiohead? I mean, it's just one band...
Edited by Useful_Idiot
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slipperman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 05 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 217
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 20:41 |
SYZYGY sayeth true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would add that any band that sounds like a Dream Theater mimic--and there are WAY too many out there--might be talented, but they're following a well-tread formula, and there's nothing PROGressive about that.
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...it is real...it is Rael...
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Lunarscape
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 19 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 374
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 20:30 |
gdub411 wrote:
Chill on the DB bashing guys.
Radiohead should NOT be here in the Archives.
This site is losing its ingetrity by the day.
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An enormous MINUS to the Prog Archives including Radiohead here, well if you have Styxx and Talk Talk why the heck not ? A few more inclusions like Chemichal Brothers, Orb and Moby ad we will have Techno Archives. Maybe we'll have Mariah Carey and Britney Spears included at the end of this year and have a Pop Archives.....Its a shame !
___________
Lunar   
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Music Is The Soul Bird That Flies In The Immense Heart Of The Listener . . .
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:36 |
^  Atta boy! That's the spirit! 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:31 |
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tho i guess radioheads music can drive us to suicide, its not exactly happy people music is it? and thats why i love it!
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The Worthless Recluse
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:30 |
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well even though this is bad news to me i will try my best to see past it, continue progging, reviewing and contributing to this forum as prog is VERY important to me which is why i made such a big deal out of all this.
and i will be re-listening to my radiohead albums thoroughly in order to give them top notch reviews going by how they should be rated MUSICALLY and as RADIOHEAD, i will not look down on them just because they are not prog, to be honest i think ok computer is a true album worthy of the 5 star rating, its just been misplaced on this prog site.
sorry if i have offended anyone or my constant wining has drove anyone to suicide
Edited by frenchie
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The Worthless Recluse
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:11 |
When there's a choice to be made for a lot of people, it will either be a matter of favoritism or majority rule (or some mixture of the two). Either way, there's gonna be a segment of the folks that will rightly feel screwed by the whole thing, but ya gotta bite the bullet and continue to fight the good fight and someday the worm will turn.
Sorry, sometimes my "Lee" turns into R. Lee Ermey!
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:05 |
frenchie wrote:
well its something that i'm gonna have to put up with
Yes, if you choose to stay -- I hope you do!
before we only had strict prog only bands.
Really? We had that? Does "strict prog only" include TALK TALK, for example? I find it hard to believe that you, or anyone else here, are fully familiar with all of the many, many diverse artists here.
To me this is an insult, i hope max and/or maani can sum this all up soon
Don't take it personally, pal, and, with all due respect to Max and Maani, they don't own the TRUTH re prog. What you would get from them would be yet more opinion -- more insightful than most, perhaps, but OPINION nonetheless. Just like this....
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Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 19:00 |
James Lee wrote:
frenchie wrote:
well its something that i'm gonna have to put up with and will never be happy with (unless the next radiohead album is prog). and it is unfair on some of the more proggier bands that havent made it to the site as well.
radiohead are a bad example of prog and before we only had strict prog only bands. i cant reli think of one radiohead prog album, just a few rare prog moments. the first 2 albums are plain indie alternative.
anyway i am a person who thinks genres are very important and to me this is an insult, i hope max and/or maani can sum this all up soon |
Who has suffered? Is there a queue for Progarchives inclusion, and Radiohead rudely cut to the front of the line?
I don't think there's a single member of the community that doesn't have a problem with a band or two that's included in the database, and most of us have a band or two that we'd like to see inaugurated.
All this means to me is that there's another band in the database that I can review without spending additional funds...so I guess, in a way, some other band did lose out. But I probably wouldn't have bought that other band's album next anyway. |
actually there is a queue, a huge suggested bands to be added list, tonnes of bands are on there and radiohead have actually cut in before them. look in the prog suggestions area. but still i get what you mean. i think its wrong
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The Worthless Recluse
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:55 |
frenchie wrote:
well its something that i'm gonna have to put up with and will never be happy with (unless the next radiohead album is prog). and it is unfair on some of the more proggier bands that havent made it to the site as well.
radiohead are a bad example of prog and before we only had strict prog only bands. i cant reli think of one radiohead prog album, just a few rare prog moments. the first 2 albums are plain indie alternative.
anyway i am a person who thinks genres are very important and to me this is an insult, i hope max and/or maani can sum this all up soon |
Who has suffered? Is there a queue for Progarchives inclusion, and Radiohead rudely cut to the front of the line?
I don't think there's a single member of the community that doesn't have a problem with a band or two that's included in the database, and most of us have a band or two that we'd like to see inaugurated.
All this means to me is that there's another band in the database that I can review without spending additional funds...so I guess, in a way, some other band did lose out. But I probably wouldn't have bought that other band's album next anyway.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:51 |
Ah, but 'tis a human system, Frenchie me ol' sock, and thus, by definition, FLAWED.
As that wise old Greek Aesop would have it, "You can't please all of the people all of the time."
That's life -- c'est la vie!
Edited by Peter
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Metropolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 760
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:47 |
Come on now, can't we all just be friends 
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We Lost the Skyline............
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 18:45 |
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well its something that i'm gonna have to put up with and will never be happy with (unless the next radiohead album is prog). and it is unfair on some of the more proggier bands that havent made it to the site as well.
radiohead are a bad example of prog and before we only had strict prog only bands. i cant reli think of one radiohead prog album, just a few rare prog moments. the first 2 albums are plain indie alternative.
anyway i am a person who thinks genres are very important and to me this is an insult, i hope max and/or maani can sum this all up soon
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The Worthless Recluse
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