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Cheesecakemouse 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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 Posted: July 11 2006 at 18:04 |
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I think that the Admin/Collabs concerns are legitimate, maybe we could try this on trial and if it fails then no need to worry, I guess it just depends if its worth all the trouble getting it up and running if its only for a short time?
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 10:37 |
 MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
RycheMan wrote:
Great Idea!
Hopefully those early Rainbow albums would get some recognition. Some Bowie, BOC etc |
This is my opinion!!!
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Do you really think their presence here is going to "make or break" these artists?
Are you, I and all not still free to like/listen to them? 
Surely most people here (who have attained the age of reason) are familiar with Bowie? 
The arguing would be ENDLESS: "How could you only list Low, Heroes and Lodger? Have you even HEARD Outside? It is way more proggy than those! Why, I oughtta...." (blah blah blah de freakin' BLAH!) 
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 08:11 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
[QUOTE=RycheMan]Great Idea!
Hopefully those early Rainbow albums would get some recognition. Some Bowie, BOC etc
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Also:
Pretty Things(SF Sorrow), The Who, Small Faces (Ogden Nut Flake), Miles
Davis, Herbie Hancock, Bee Gees: Odessa, Joni Mitchell, Rolling
Stones(At His Satanic Majesties Request), Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden,
Metallica, Tim Buckley mm..., have all made an album or two that has a
natural place here.
Still can't see any good reasons why they shouldn't. Who'll decide
what? That's a question than can be asked for every inlusion. Why is
this more relevant here?
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A˛ Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 07:56 |
Phil wrote:
Excellent idea, cheesecakemouse, I do think albums like Bowies "Heroes" or "Low", Miles Davis' Bitches Brew, maybe some of The Flaming Lips, ought to be recognised as being "progressive" or having prog-like themes. Perhaps this is the way to do it. I certainly feel the wholesale inclusion of some artistes is not really appropriate.
BTW I didn't read all of what's gone before but...Madonna???!!! |
Yes. Madonna can be submitted, along with any other candidate. Then she will be immediately rejected. 
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Phil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1881
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 07:45 |
Excellent idea, cheesecakemouse, I do think albums like Bowies "Heroes" or "Low", Miles Davis' Bitches Brew, maybe some of The Flaming Lips, ought to be recognised as being "progressive" or having prog-like themes. Perhaps this is the way to do it. I certainly feel the wholesale inclusion of some artistes is not really appropriate.
BTW I didn't read all of what's gone before but...Madonna???!!!
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S Lang
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 01 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 441
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 06:15 |
There are obviously difficulties with finding a way to feature John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce, Miles Davis, etc. on the Archives. It can be argued forever, but considering that we are talking about legends ignored, it's just untenable.
There's got to be a way to do it.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friűl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: July 10 2006 at 05:35 |
RycheMan wrote:
Great Idea!
Hopefully those early Rainbow albums would get some recognition. Some Bowie, BOC etc |
This is my opinion!!!
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 23:00 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
micky wrote:
Pressure..
Ivan... pressure is litigating a important case... presenting a
seminar.... delivering a job your boss has made clear that you are to
do.... This site is fun... I feel no pressure, and
neither should anyone else. Debates are healthy and natural..as
long as conducted like adults.
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Well
Micky I understand you can't remember this because you had some
problems and not working with the group for a couple of weeks when this
happened.
- A band was changed from Symphonic to Art Rock (You also voted in favour before leaving.
- We were criticized and even insulted outside the Collaborator's zone
- A Collaboratoir disagreed so much that started a poll in the open section of the Forum
- The insults and attacks run from one side to another.
- Our thread was closed and the Symphonic team almost disolved (With more than enough reasons for Tony)
- I had to personally PM all the members involved in the discussion just to avoid any further problem.
- This was used as an excuse by members who don't agree with Sub-Genres to attack all the structure.
- We had to start all over again and loose one week's work.
All this because ONE BAND not removed or added to/from Prog Archives, only changed from Symphonic to Art Rock
Well
along with the perks of being a S.C or P.R. comes responsiblity... to
be able to explain your decisions... and if need be... stand up against
the 'masses'. |
I
can't talk for everybody, but at least for me it's a lot of work that I
do with pleasure (And I know you too), we sacrifice family and even
work time what again I do happilly because I love PA and Prog.
| Again..
what I'm proposing is no different than what we do... the
decision would be made by the team... it would be final... and the
forum at large may not like it... they'll bitch about it.... then life
would go on... as it always has here. The earth did not open up
and shallow PA's when ELO was included.. or the Beatles... hahahha |
No, it diddn't opened, but The Beatles have some Prog
elements in a couple of albums plus it was a special case and
ELO was added by mistake against what all polls said. Imagine if
the team by one or two votes adds a Rap, Hip Hop or a Disco
album, that would create chaos.
The addition of Radiohead caused a big problem but probably you won't remember it because you weren't a member yet.
those are small details... as we have proven... a small group can work... and a large one..would be even better.... |
Small
details? Micky we are currently three working, one member resigned even
before the team was created, two weren't able to be a part, one is
missing and one member only contributes with his wise advice when
asked.
I had to choose a completely new team and despite this we are still currently three when we are 5 in reality.
ahhh....
not to be flippant Ivan.... PM's work just as well... what we do
actually does not require us to meet... we do because we enjoy each
other's company.. |
I consider this
reunions useful maybe because we all enjoy our company is the reason
why we're still working, but remember Raffaella wakes at 5 or 6 am to
meet us and we have to stay until well after midnight.
once
again.... small details.... make the inclusion process mandatory that
all group members agree before inclusion.. with the range of ages and
tastes.. it serves the purpose of including albums that SHOULD be here.. |
Then forget ityou will never make ten persons to agree about a non Prog band, you would be lucky if you get more than 50%.
hahah...
and I've shown that it can work and would work... it just involves
change... and that is something that some peope are resistant to..
having spole my piece on the matter.... I'll sit down and shut the hell up ahhahah  Besides... it's time for the game!
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Everybody here agrees about change Micky, but not everybody will agree about the same changes.
It's fun have a debate with you, something I had
forgotten since we work together in the Symphonic team....I missed
them, sadly we agree most of the times with the changes that have to be
made inside Symphonic sub-genre. 
hahah.. no offense but as much as I miss debating
you.. what I miss most is the opportunity to break out the hot pink on
you. I did say I'd let this drop so I will. Tony told me
yesterday on a different matter to just trust the 'powers that
be' You've made your points... I've made mine. Though
I must say... I think I got you on this one hahaha
Iván |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 22:02 |
Look I'm not trying to cause more trouble than this website, I just wanted to see where people stand on such issues, with the issues such as Madonna; thats really extreme cases 99% would not agree with such a thing. What someone said earlier about me not appreciating how there'll be a problem what level of prog will an artist need to be included on this website, is a fair comment. There will always be problems no matter how things are categorised, the arts are almost impossible to categorise efficiently,there are always those falling between the cracks, and always a frustration that others are not included and why others are, its a system and like all human systems its flawed. My frustration is the exclusion of Miles Davis but I do appreciate the can of worms it'll open if he was included, no one will ever be 100% satisfied with this website, but as they say 'if it aint' broke don't fix it.' So of course it isn't perfect, and it will never be perfect, and so there'll always be debates in the forums, most liely till the end of time or the end of the internet. Oh well.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 19:56 |
micky wrote:
Pressure.. Ivan... pressure is litigating a important case... presenting a seminar.... delivering a job your boss has made clear that you are to do.... This site is fun... I feel no pressure, and neither should anyone else. Debates are healthy and natural..as long as conducted like adults.
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Well Micky I understand you can't remember this because you had some problems and not working with the group for a couple of weeks when this happened.
- A band was changed from Symphonic to Art Rock (You also voted in favour before leaving.
- We were criticized and even insulted outside the Collaborator's zone
- A Collaboratoir disagreed so much that started a poll in the open section of the Forum
- The insults and attacks run from one side to another.
- Our thread was closed and the Symphonic team almost disolved (With more than enough reasons for Tony)
- I had to personally PM all the members involved in the discussion just to avoid any further problem.
- This was used as an excuse by members who don't agree with Sub-Genres to attack all the structure.
- We had to start all over again and loose one week's work.
All this because ONE BAND not removed or added to/from Prog Archives, only changed from Symphonic to Art Rock
Well along with the perks of being a S.C or P.R. comes responsiblity... to be able to explain your decisions... and if need be... stand up against the 'masses'. |
I can't talk for everybody, but at least for me it's a lot of work that I do with pleasure (And I know you too), we sacrifice family and even work time what again I do happilly because I love PA and Prog.
| Again.. what I'm proposing is no different than what we do... the decision would be made by the team... it would be final... and the forum at large may not like it... they'll bitch about it.... then life would go on... as it always has here. The earth did not open up and shallow PA's when ELO was included.. or the Beatles... hahahha |
No, it diddn't opened, but The Beatles have some Prog elements in a couple of albums plus it was a special case and ELO was added by mistake against what all polls said. Imagine if the team by one or two votes adds a Rap, Hip Hop or a Disco album, that would create chaos.
The addition of Radiohead caused a big problem but probably you won't remember it because you weren't a member yet.
those are small details... as we have proven... a small group can work... and a large one..would be even better.... |
Small details? Micky we are currently three working, one member resigned even before the team was created, two weren't able to be a part, one is missing and one member only contributes with his wise advice when asked.
I had to choose a completely new team and despite this we are still currently three when we are 5 in reality.
ahhh.... not to be flippant Ivan.... PM's work just as well... what we do actually does not require us to meet... we do because we enjoy each other's company.. |
I consider this reunions useful maybe because we all enjoy our company is the reason why we're still working, but remember Raffaella wakes at 5 or 6 am to meet us and we have to stay until well after midnight.
once again.... small details.... make the inclusion process mandatory that all group members agree before inclusion.. with the range of ages and tastes.. it serves the purpose of including albums that SHOULD be here.. |
Then forget ityou will never make ten persons to agree about a non Prog band, you would be lucky if you get more than 50%.
hahah... and I've shown that it can work and would work... it just involves change... and that is something that some peope are resistant to..
having spole my piece on the matter.... I'll sit down and shut the hell up ahhahah Besides... it's time for the game!
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Everybody here agrees about change Micky, but not everybody will agree about the same changes.
It's fun have a debate with you, something I had forgotten since we work together in the Symphonic team....I missed them, sadly we agree most of the times with the changes that have to be made inside Symphonic sub-genre.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 09 2006 at 20:01
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 13:21 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
hahahah... since my high horse was shot last
night... I will stick to my pledge having recieved my answer and sit
down quietly and shut my big yapper ...however...before I do....
Micky, seems you have bad memory, you're
part of a team already and you know how much preasure can be placed on
us for just changing one band from Symphonic to Neo Prog or Art Rock.
We're not eliminating a band, we're not adding a band, we're just
changing a genre and still we got some serious debates in the
Collaborators and Prog Lounge Forums. True, though luckily not too often.
Pressure.. Ivan... pressure is litigating a
important case... presenting a seminar.... delivering a job your boss
has made clear that you are to do.... This site is
fun... I feel no pressure, and neither should anyone else.
Debates are healthy and natural..as long as conducted like adults.
Now multiply that for 10 if you as part of a team don't accept a
determined album, you will have a lot of preasure if you refuse to add
a hip hop or Disco album to that section.
Well
along with the perks of being a S.C or P.R. comes responsiblity... to
be able to explain your decisions... and if need be... stand up against
the 'masses'.
Now multiply that for 10 again if you add a Rolling Stones, Earth
Eind & Fire or Boston album, some people will start to make
problems, there are still members making a lot of noise because Kansas
is here. This is true, but I don't really
know whether we should let ourselves be influenced by what people
think. No one will always agree on everything. Obviously IMHO.
Again.. what I'm proposing is no different
than what we do... the decision would be made by the team... it
would be final... and the forum at large may not like it... they'll
bitch about it.... then life would go on... as it always has
here. The earth did not open up and shallow PA's when ELO was
included.. or the Beatles... hahahha
Then, you would need a team not only formed by specialist on one
but in every genre, I can't get the difference between RIO and Post
Rock or Death Prog Metal and Viking Prog Metal, so you would need at
least 10 members. I'm not sure about this...
those are small details... as we have proven... a small group can work... and a large one..would be even better....
Now add the time gap, you know we have to stay until 2 am and
Raffaella has to wake at 5 or 6 AM to discuss with us. How many members
are willing to do that? How true.., but I wouldn't miss it for anything in the world! I'm proud to be a member of the Three Horsemen of Symphonic Prog!
ahhh.... not to be flippant Ivan.... PM's
work just as well... what we do actually does not require us to meet...
we do because we enjoy each other's company..
Now, add the risk of opening the door for absolutely each and
every band in the musical spectrum, from Motown to Madonna (Some people
claim that songs as "Like a Prayer" are related to Prog, this would be
chaotic That is beyond ridiculous! Though it's true, remember the Duran Duran thread...
once again.... small details.... make the
inclusion process mandatory that all group members agree before
inclusion.. with the range of ages and tastes.. it serves the purpose
of including albums that SHOULD be here..
Now add all the accurate points Maani and Peter made like the
divisive factor, you will have 100 posts asking if A or B album is Prog
of not and if the team has the bad luck to disagree with the opinion of
the fans of determined band and/or album you would have a civil war on
hands.
No, this would never work.
Iván
hahah... and
I've shown that it can work and would work... it just involves
change... and that is something that some peope are resistant to..
having spole my piece on the matter.... I'll sit down and shut the hell up ahhahah Besides... it's time for the game!
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 12:20 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Micky, seems you have bad memory, you're part of a team already and you know how much preasure can be placed on us for just changing one band from Symphonic to Neo Prog or Art Rock. We're not eliminating a band, we're not adding a band, we're just changing a genre and still we got some serious debates in the Collaborators and Prog Lounge Forums. True, though luckily not too often.
Now multiply that for 10 if you as part of a team don't accept a determined album, you will have a lot of preasure if you refuse to add a hip hop or Disco album to that section.
Now multiply that for 10 again if you add a Rolling Stones, Earth Eind & Fire or Boston album, some people will start to make problems, there are still members making a lot of noise because Kansas is here. This is true, but I don't really know whether we should let ourselves be influenced by what people think. No one will always agree on everything. Obviously IMHO.
Then, you would need a team not only formed by specialist on one but in every genre, I can't get the difference between RIO and Post Rock or Death Prog Metal and Viking Prog Metal, so you would need at least 10 members. I'm not sure about this...
Now add the time gap, you know we have to stay until 2 am and Raffaella has to wake at 5 or 6 AM to discuss with us. How many members are willing to do that? How true.., but I wouldn't miss it for anything in the world! I'm proud to be a member of the Three Horsemen of Symphonic Prog!
Now, add the risk of opening the door for absolutely each and every band in the musical spectrum, from Motown to Madonna (Some people claim that songs as "Like a Prayer" are related to Prog, this would be chaotic That is beyond ridiculous! Though it's true, remember the Duran Duran thread...
Now add all the accurate points Maani and Peter made like the divisive factor, you will have 100 posts asking if A or B album is Prog of not and if the team has the bad luck to disagree with the opinion of the fans of determined band and/or album you would have a civil war on hands.
No, this would never work.
Iván
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 12:12 |
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Madonna "Like a Prayer" related to Prog?!! That really made me laugh!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 12:09 |
micky wrote:
I see where you and Peter specifically are coming from... but if you could answer me this and I'll sit down quietly and shut my big yapper hahaha.... would not those problems be solved by a 'crack' team of S.C.'s from range of ages and tastes who would then decide what is to be added and what is not. Would and should have no more division or rancor then normal admissions by the various teams have already.
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Micky, seems you have bad memory, you're part of a team already and you know how much preasure can be placed on us for just changing one band from Symphonic to Neo Prog or Art Rock. We're not eliminating a band, we're not adding a band, we're just changing a genre and still we got some serious debates in the Collaborators and Prog Lounge Forums.
Now multiply that for 10 if you as part of a team don't accept a determined album, you will have a lot of preasure if you refuse to add a hip hop or Disco album to that section.
Now multiply that for 10 again if you add a Rolling Stones, Earth Eind & Fire or Boston album, some people will start to make problems, there are still members making a lot of noise because Kansas is here.
Then, you would need a team not only formed by specialist on one but in every genre, I can't get the difference between RIO and Post Rock or Death Prog Metal and Viking Prog Metal, so you would need at least 10 members.
Now add the time gap, you know we have to stay until 2 am and Raffaella has to wake at 5 or 6 AM to discuss with us. How many members are willing to do that?
Now, add the risk of opening the door for absolutely each and every band in the musical spectrum, from Motown to Madonna (Some people claim that songs as "Like a Prayer" are related to Prog, this would be chaotic
Now add all the accurate points Maani and Peter made like the divisive factor, you will have 100 posts asking if A or B album is Prog of not and if the team has the bad luck to disagree with the opinion of the fans of determined band and/or album you would have a civil war on hands.
No, this would never work.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 09 2006 at 12:12
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: July 09 2006 at 08:44 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 19:51 |
maani wrote:
All:
I find it interesting that all of the "oldest" members - Peter,
Ivan, Video Vertigo - are the ones trying to explain why the idea is
probably not a good one.
As another veteran member (and one of the first, if not the
first, admin), I must agree with them. In fact, it was I who
first brought up this idea over three years ago - before many of the
"debated" bands were included (Radiohead, Queen, Beatles et al).
At that time, I suggested a category for prog (or proggish) albums by
non-prog groups. I was thinking of everything from Revolver,
Pepper and MMT by The Beatles, to Original Soundtrack and How Dare You
by 10CC, to English Settlement and Mummer by XTC, etc. I even
argued that the inclusion of Supertramp was a mistake, since only their
second album and Crime of the Century could truly be considered "prog"
or "proggish."
My suggestion met with an approximately equal amount of support
and rejection. But it was the wisdom of veterans like Peter and
Ivan that convinced me I was going down the wrong road, for the very
reason that Peter makes clear (and that cheesecakemouse seems to be
missing or ignoring): how does one determine which albums by which
groups are "prog" or "proggish" when no "conclusive" definition of
"prog" can be agreed upon? And even if such a definition could
be generally agreed upon, how does one determine the "degree" of
"proggyness" of a particular album? What are the parameters? Who
decides?
Peter, Ivan and VV (among others) are correct: this idea - which
is admittedly well-intentioned and even, to some degree, well-argued
(just as mine was) - is an unnecessary and potentially divisive one -
more divisive than most of you are able to see right now in your
well-intentioned, but ultimately limited, focus on the seeming merits of the idea.
Peace. |
I see where you and Peter specifically are coming from... but if you
could answer me this and I'll sit down quietly and shut my big yapper
hahaha.... would not those problems be solved by a 'crack' team of
S.C.'s from range of ages and tastes who would then decide what is to
be added and what is not. Would and should have no more division
or rancor then normal admissions by the various teams have
already.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 13:42 |
All:
I find it interesting that all of the "oldest" members - Peter, Ivan, Video Vertigo - are the ones trying to explain why the idea is probably not a good one.
As another veteran member (and one of the first, if not the first, admin), I must agree with them. In fact, it was I who first brought up this idea over three years ago - before many of the "debated" bands were included (Radiohead, Queen, Beatles et al). At that time, I suggested a category for prog (or proggish) albums by non-prog groups. I was thinking of everything from Revolver, Pepper and MMT by The Beatles, to Original Soundtrack and How Dare You by 10CC, to English Settlement and Mummer by XTC, etc. I even argued that the inclusion of Supertramp was a mistake, since only their second album and Crime of the Century could truly be considered "prog" or "proggish."
My suggestion met with an approximately equal amount of support and rejection. But it was the wisdom of veterans like Peter and Ivan that convinced me I was going down the wrong road, for the very reason that Peter makes clear (and that cheesecakemouse seems to be missing or ignoring): how does one determine which albums by which groups are "prog" or "proggish" when no "conclusive" definition of "prog" can be agreed upon? And even if such a definition could be generally agreed upon, how does one determine the "degree" of "proggyness" of a particular album? What are the parameters? Who decides?
Peter, Ivan and VV (among others) are correct: this idea - which is admittedly well-intentioned and even, to some degree, well-argued (just as mine was) - is an unnecessary and potentially divisive one - more divisive than most of you are able to see right now in your well-intentioned, but ultimately limited, focus on the seeming merits of the idea.
Peace.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:13 |
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points well made Peter....
the only way I could see to work... if the 'powers that be' wanted
it... would be not to have a mass inclusion of albums... that would be
chaos.. and lead to many problems that you mention, but to have a
'team' who would be responsible for individual album inclusions.
The team would consist of a wide range of ages and interest and reflect
all the notions of what is and is not prog. The site great as it
is.. cannot remain static.. in order to make it even better...
sometimes you need to be a bit bold and go for the gusto and including
obvious prog gems that are not here is one way to do it. How many
more stupid PM or best Genesis album threads can you or anyone else
bear to stand. It might shake things up a bit.. and when it
settles.. we may have a even BETTER site to discuss our beloved
prog
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:03 |
Sorry, but I believe this to be a purely academic (ie, futile) exercise.
Quite some time ago, before many of you joined, it was decided by "the powers that be" (the owners -- and this site is NOT a democracy; nor am I saying it should be) that once an artist was in, then the entire discography of that artist would be in.
The entire notion of "prog or not/where the cutoff point for an artist should be" is VERY subjective, because "prog" itself is a subjective notion. Unlike, for example, jazz or blues, "prog" is not really a genre, but a subjective value judgement -- it is in the "ear of the hearer," so to speak. (Just think of the wide range of very diverse artists represented here: for example, we have Yes, Deep Purple, Dream Theater, some "death" metal, Talk Talk, Queen, Radiohead, the Beatles, etc, etc. The "connections" or "common ground" among all of those artists are tenuous at best!
Also, consider all of the artists that are regularly held up for potential inclusion: we've had everyone from Talking Heads to Steely Dan to Black Sabbath. Clearly, again, "prog" is a very subjective notion (that is what I mean when I say that it "doesn't really exist") that is up to each of us to privately define. If you think Talking Heads, Sabbath, early Genesis and Steely Dan belong together, then great: burn your homemade "prog" compilation and arrange your collection accordingly (but don't expect others to necessarily "buy into" your vision of "prog").
No, I see partial representation of an artist as just one more thing to argue about, divide us, and make the site even more exclusive (whereas the owners want PA to be inclusive) and elitest. 
As another person has suggested above, I think we have too many "hair-splitting," amorphous categories already. As I've said many times, art is not math or science -- our words and "definitions" cannot neatly contain it. It is not an intellectual exercise -- it lives more in the heart of the individual, not the head. All of these "boxes" of words (and words are open to interpretation) we keep designing for the "categorization" of music simply do not work -- except, perhaps, on an individual listener basis. (And that's also the reason to drop the words which accompany the star ratings!)
Let the individual reviews address the (subjective) issues of "progginess!"
Edited by Peter Rideout - July 08 2006 at 12:06
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 08:35 |
earlyprog wrote:
I'm unsure until someone convince me of the need for
this. How many albums do you expect in this new category? if under 10
then perhaps it's not really worth the energy.
In addition, it wil further dilute this site by shifting the focus away from the truly progressive artists. |
I can think of half that number in the pure jazz category right off the
top of my head.... factor in rock... it would far surpass 10..
might even approach the 100's.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Should there be a new Category?
