Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
|
Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:18 |
Don't think Art Zoyd got anything to do with Zeuhl
.............
I wonder why my previous post appeared all in small print ????
|
carefulwiththataxe
|
|
eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
|
Posted: June 14 2006 at 06:16 |
Sean Trane wrote:
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
|
What album(s) you've got in mind??
I love their Tep Zepi, but not very much impressed by Zed (only two albums I've heard)
"Derivative" - ? - from who ???
And sometimes I doubt this band is Zeuhl....
|
carefulwiththataxe
|
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
|
Posted: June 14 2006 at 04:14 |
First review of mine of Art Zoyd: the debut (original recording not the re-recorded version of 81)
Art Zoyd – Le Jour Ou Brûleront Les Cités (76)
Little did Art Zoyd know that one day this album would become prophetic thirty years later. Hailing from, a small industrial (mining and steel) city in Northern France a stone’s throw from Belgium (Maubeuge is where one of my great-grandfather was born), no doubt these guys lived in those suburbs that they predicted one day from a revolt would burn. One of the most intriguing things is how these future musicians got into such an awesome and experimental avant-garde group as Art Zoyd. Apart from the fact that a lot of Northern France’s industrial cities were voting communist, one of the few positive things that communism ever brought was to make higher culture accessible to everyone including the poor (ESPECIALLY the poor), and this IMHO, might just be their (AZ) case. As was the case for Area, Henry Cow and other ultra avant-garde, Art Zoyd was resolutely left wing, much like all of the RIO-chart signatory groups (of which AZ were not original members but part of the second wave) and have a close link to Belgium’s Univers Zero, their career throughout.
I am writing the preface of this review under a hypothetical probability strictly knowing what the album has to offer in terms of story through the titles of their works (no lyrics since the music is totally instrumental except for wordless vocals), but there seems to be a solid thread or story, even pressing me to declare this album conceptual. The music, clearly inspired from Bartok, Stravinsky, and Henry Cow or Zappa’s “serious music” is screaming, yelling, howling its madness of the riots between Special Brigades and the activists wearing Masks into Masquerade (Simulacre is a sham or an pretentious enactment). This first side is simply stunning and the violence and tension ever present even if there is absolutely no rock element in their music (bar a short passage in Fourmis), but it fits their theme immaculately well.
The second side is an auto-criticism of those suburbs not yet in revolt: two tracks (the third one, Simulacre, still belonging to the first-side theme) depicting the never-ending suffering with an elusive hope of a brighter future (the revolt coming once this hope disappears). Fourmis (ants) is self-explanatory of their plight (with a passage compared to Canada Brass’ Flight Of The Bumblebee), while Carnival (a very important theme even in atheist circles) is one of those breaks were they are allowed to vent off their frustrations by deriding the ones dominating them. As you might expect, the music loses some of its solemnity in this last track to adopt a (relatively) more festive tone.
Clearly the works of violinist Gerard Hourbette, greatly helped by Zabotzieff (of Polish descent like many miners fleeing Poland’s misery in the late XIXth century) on bass and cello, the music is an impressive modern XXth classic, where my buddy JP Soarez soars on the woodwinds.
Dense, impenetrable or not easily accessible, this album (as most of AZ’s works) does not surrender easily to one’s taste buds. As a matter of fact, this sometimes obtuse (because of its difficult nature) is not easily recommendable unless you are a confirmed fan of this RIO-Zeuhl music current. Hence the four star rating.
|
let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
|
Posted: June 13 2006 at 09:49 |
The groups I would avoid in Zeuhl are :
Runaway totem >> derivative , and increasingly sampled music as album go by
Musique Noise: not bad but nothing worth writing home aboit either.
|
let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
progressive
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 366
|
Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:25 |
Many aren't appeald by Magma's Üdü Wüdü, but why, why, why, why, why, o-why?
Tell me. I like it (partly, but in a hard way - partly very much).
Too avantgarde? No. Not "avantgarde". And why not to be avantgarde? Could it be avantgarde if everyone liked it - no.
Magma (not all, but most of it), Ruins (not all the punk parts), and Dün are amazing, and other zeuhl. It's very progressive, it's emotional, it's crazy. Oh, the drums, and what bass lines, and the high female vocals with low (and high:)) male growling, and the imaginated world (not the main idea), and the symphonism, heavier than anything and happy parts, aah. Though, Happy Family hasn't mesmerized me.
Abstrakt wrote:
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde |
Is zeuhl too heavy (I mean - too dynamic and raging.) or too oddly and funnily and in a gay way beautiful, almost pretentious? Maybe, those styles are in their zenith in zeuhl maybe. But there's also irony in zeuhl and you must learn to tolerate zeuhl style - maybe by thinking all the chances zeuhl is offering. It's so different and broadens your world, and also arouses different feelings and thoughts. Think zeuhl for example music in head of some people who are arguing, or being some neurotic persons world - like krautrock - routined or something. Or just think it as being odd dance - or "celestial". Or.. But, those things are represented in some other genres too - so, is zeuhl too progressive ?
And it's not
Rock-in-Opposition /Avant-prog (RIO de festival:)) , or yes it is - like krautrock maybe, but they are clearer and maybe more considered, stucked. Although i think Frank Zappa is more really let's say for example RIO :), but The Residents is avantgarde, when avantgarde is consireded as a genre which has more got stuck with its own things that clearly belongs to that genre (against the idea "avantgarde") - for example the cirkus themes and low electronic vocals... So it would be nice to separate old classical avantgarde from the idea of "avantgarde", although of course it has been avantgarde, and also now being - but is progressive rock always avantgarde in some way..
ok, i'm done.
Edited by progressive - June 13 2006 at 06:40
|
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20239
|
Posted: June 13 2006 at 05:06 |
Explorer-eighth wrote:
I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain. >> Zao is more Etnic and Happy sounding than Magma . I think I am still the only one to have reviewed albums of theirs. Not indispensible, but a welcome departure from Magma doom and sombre futures
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"? Crawling Winds was a 83 Japan-only EP release >> it got a re-issue on the Cuneiform release of the same name in 2001. Crawling Winds is definitely more related to the previous three albums , than the latter Uzed period. I just rewrote my revciews of early UZ up to UZED, Read up to see what crawling wind is about
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only. >> I have now been immersed for two weeks in Art Zoyd (reason wht new reviews have not come in) and I must say I am impressed. I did remember listening to a few albums in the 90's , but I had failed to see the light. I think that I have the necessary luggage to understand it now
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade". >> these are next on my list >> in the following weeks, as I must order them from the library
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut. >> Eskaton is on my list I got a friend who just bought their albums |
|
let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
Explorer-eighth
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Great Britain
Status: Offline
Points: 39
|
Posted: June 11 2006 at 22:15 |
I have recently bought Udu Wudu by Magma and it doesn't appeal to me.
There is one short track which stands out amongst the rest. It is the third track called "Troller Tanz (ghost dance)". It has more melody and variety, but what annoys me is when we get to the end of the track, there is a great melody with the piano taking the lead part, but then it fades away quickly and finishes when there is so much lost potential and much that could have been made of it.
The title track includes some brass instruments which help to make it sound more interesting, but all the other short tracks are too repetitive.
De Futura starts off really well (that is the first 8 minutes of the track). After that it just goes on and on and on with repetition.
In the mid 70s, Magma seem to lose their distinctive Orff; Stravinsky; jazz; Soft Machine influences and their ethnic influences become much stronger, unfortunately.
I still love 1001 degrees centigrades; Magma; In edits and Kohntarkosz.
|
The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
|
|
Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
|
Posted: June 09 2006 at 21:02 |
Explorer-eighth wrote:
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love). | I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain.
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"?
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only.
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade".
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut. |
Yeah I have Unives Zero's album 1313 I'll investigate them and Art Zoyd in depth, but you reckon Eskaton's 4 visions is good, i'll explore them some more
|
|
|
Explorer-eighth
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Great Britain
Status: Offline
Points: 39
|
Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:57 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love). |
I seem to remember buying a Zao album on vinyl about 20 years ago, but it didn't appeal to me. I can't remember why and I sold it soon afterwards. I bought Weidorje and I found it listenable, but rather plain.
I rate Univers Zero highly especially "Ceux du Dehors" and "Heresie" which use the cor anglais which has a more appropriate timbre than the clarinet which they used in later releases. Also, the synthesiser becomes too prominent later, but it does work well as on "Heatwave". "1313", which was their debut release, is good, but the sound quality isn't as good as it used to be on vinyl when it used to be called "Univers Zero". It had a black sleeve similar to the new design, but it was better on the original because the writing used fancy calligraphy rather than just plain text. I bought "Crawling wind" on vinyl, but I've never bought it on CD because I don't like the name of it. I can't quite remember what it sounded like - was it like "Uzed"?
I suppose I like most of Art Zoyd's music, but it is an acquired taste. I would rate "Generations sans futur" the most highly because it sounds more natural; has no synthesisers; and it has a more fluid structure than most especially the track "Trois miniatures" which is truly one of my favourites. On the CD there isn't enough of a time gap between that track and the archives tracks which come in too suddenly and which are of historic interest only.
The record sleeves were wonderful art work and I wish they would release all their albums separately. The later releases rely more on repetition, but there is another great track on the album "Phase 1V" which is called "Ballade".
"Symphonie pour le jour ou brulerent les cities" has some good music on it, but it is more chaotic. "Musique pour l'odyssee" uses repetition, but it is not boring and the use of the strings works well.
Eskaton's "4 Visions" is their best album, but the tracks are now in the "wrong" order. I thought they were in the perfect order on the cassette which was how it was originally released. Also, one of the tracks has a different ending with something of the original cut off. I like the original ending better and it shouldn't have been cut.
|
The music I enjoy is complex; varied; deep and well played.
|
|
MusicForSpeedin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 613
|
Posted: June 09 2006 at 19:41 |
Ruins are amazing
|
|
Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
|
Posted: June 09 2006 at 18:59 |
Is Zao worth my time? I have only seen a couple of reviews for their albums one person seems to absolutely love them while one can't stand them. I love Magma and Dun, I also have a Univers Zero CD- they are supposed to be semi zehuel I guess. I'll need to find out more about Zao though, are they great or mediocre? Are they worth while or is there better Zehuel groups to check out before them (other than Magma and Dun which I already own and love).
|
|
|
Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 16:54 |
|
|
bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 14:38 |
I just heard Magma's "Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh." This is some very interesting stuff, and I do like it. It's so different though, that I can't really compare it to other prog. I truly understand the Wagner references. What I see at this point is that I will probably listen to it the same way as I do Opera. It's more like sitting down to watch a movie, rather than just "putting on" some music.
|
|
|
eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 04:37 |
Abstrakt wrote:
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde |
No, Zeuhl is weird but good
Avant is also good but different
|
carefulwiththataxe
|
|
Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
|
Posted: May 25 2006 at 02:45 |
Zeuhl is too Avant Garde
|
|
bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 23:34 |
Visitor13 wrote:
Check them out yourself, here's the page with the samples:
|
Thanks for the tip. I checked it out, and it sounds pretty cool. So the next question would be, where to start?
Edited by bhikkhu - May 24 2006 at 23:36
|
|
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 15:35 |
bhikkhu wrote:
I am curious. I had never heard of Zeuhl before I found this site (other than as a demonic character in "Ghostbusters"). I also have never heard of any of the bands in this genre. What would you compare it to? My favorites are Genesis, KC, Yes, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, etc. Don't much care for bands like DT, and Tool. Would I like it? |
Check them out yourself, here's the page with the samples:
Some of that stuff is really, and I mean really, uncompromising. If you don't like it, please give it another chance. Enjoy !
|
|
walrus333
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 286
|
Posted: May 24 2006 at 14:48 |
Is Lagger Blues Machine any good?
|
If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!
|
|
Cygnus X-2
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
Status: Offline
Points: 21342
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:45 |
Syzygy wrote:
Lots of interesting points raised so far. Guapo's last 2 albums are Zeuhl, but as others have pointed out their earlier albums (mostly unavailable) are more avant prog noise. They haven't updated their website for months, incidentally - don't know why they've been so quiet, but they're scheduled to appear at this year's NEARFest.
|
I also had noticed that their site hasn't been updated in awhile. And after listening to Five Suns again, I must agree with you that they do have more of a Zeuhl edge on the later albums (I don't own any of their early albums unfortunately, but the samples I heard seems more Avant-Garde than Zeuhl).
|
|
|
bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
|
Posted: May 23 2006 at 18:24 |
I am curious. I had never heard of Zeuhl before I found this site (other than as a demonic character in "Ghostbusters"). I also have never heard of any of the bands in this genre. What would you compare it to? My favorites are Genesis, KC, Yes, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, etc. Don't much care for bands like DT, and Tool. Would I like it?
|
|
|