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stonebeard 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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 Posted: May 09 2006 at 15:16 |
No, but they're the the best (as far as my memory serves me as of now) Modern Symphonic band in existence.
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Rorro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 15:09 |
 ivansfr0st wrote:
Rorro wrote:
I think that if TFK would had made Unfold The Future in 1972 everybody would agree that it was a masterpiece. |
Haha, this seems like the most common excuse I hear from a TFK fan explaining why the majority doesn't believe that TFK is the greatest thing since sliced pancakes.
In response to this excuse: no, if they were active during 1972, they simply wouldn't have the fundamental genius groups to rip off and would end up... with an album that sounded like 50's rock? smooth jazz? If they were the same people, they'd come up with something unoriginal, derivative and uninspired. It DOES matter that their music is being made 30 years late than it was supposed to.
-- Ivan |
Ok, I love TFK, but i'm not a fan, in fact i'm not a fan of any group.
I agree with you that they wouldn't have enough influences to make an album like this, but i mean, what if a band (call it X) made exactly unfold the future in 1972, wouldn't you say that it is a masterpiece?, and i'm not talking about the originallity, i'm talking about purely in musical terms, the arrengment are so good, they're incredible (IMHO). I'm not saying that TFK is as good as the bands from 70's, i'm saying that they are at least as enjoyable as them for me.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:58 |
Rorro wrote:
I think that if TFK would had made Unfold The Future in 1972 everybody would agree that it was a masterpiece. |
Haha, this seems like the most common excuse I hear from a TFK fan explaining why the majority doesn't believe that TFK is the greatest thing since sliced pancakes.
In response to this excuse: no, if they were active during 1972, they simply wouldn't have the fundamental genius groups to rip off and would end up... with an album that sounded like 50's rock? smooth jazz? If they were the same people, they'd come up with something unoriginal, derivative and uninspired. It DOES matter that their music is being made 30 years late than it was supposed to.
-- Ivan
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Rorro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:53 |
I think that if TFK would had made Unfold The Future in 1972 everybody would agree that it was a masterpiece. My point is that TFK's music quality is as good a Genesis or Yes, maybe they can't reach the level of emotionality that this two bands have, but if we analize only the music , i would say thy're on the same level, and even that TFK is better in some passages.
But I love Genesis and Yes too, and i think they deserve more credit because of the originallity, but also i think that TFK are terribly underrated, they are some of the best musicians of this era and they are full of ideas.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:30 |
Yeah, music isn't boxing, you don't put two musicians close to each other and wait who "outpowers" who.
And the best musician is the best songwriter.
-- Ivan
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FragileDT
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1485
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:27 |
Moatilliatta wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and agree with you. The Flower Kings' musicianship and compositions are at the same level of quality, and I find them very enjoyable. The only thing is that Genesis was way before The Flower Kings. I think that's why everybody writes stuff like this off so quickly. The music is as good, but it's not as important (historically) or influential. I think it's unfair to judge based on the aforementioned.
It's like this in all areas of music it seems. When you ask someone who the greatest guitarist of all time is, majortiy vote will probably be to Jimi Hendrix. Why is this? Surely, it isn't because of his skill or songwriting. It's because of his groundbreaking ideas and techniques. He influenced so many. Nowadays, if you put Jimi up against (roughly) any guitarist (especially in prog), the other guy will destroy him.
So, I think The Flower Kings are as good, and as enjoyable as Genesis, but they will never get as much credit because of their chronological place in music. |
Not true at all. Once again, people glorifying prog guitarists just because they play prog. 99% of prog guitarists couldn't come near Hendrix's playing. It wasn't about technicality, it was about the emotion of the song and the style of playing. Petrucci could come in and play 5000 notes to Hendrix's one, but no one would be affected by it. Too many notes don't mean you are a better guitarist. Once again, you can teach scales, but you can't teach how to play with emotional feel. The feel that Hendrix had.
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One likes to believe
In the freedom of music
But glittering prizes
And endless Compromises
Shatter the illusion
Of integrity
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GPFR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 760
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:13 |
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It's all down too opinion, I prefere Genesis.
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www.myspace.com/hail_peter
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progadicto
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4316
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 14:11 |
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Maybe I will give you an answer in 20 years... It is not the first time in this forums that I read opinions like this one (very respectable of course) but IMO still is too soon for appreciations like this one. Time and new generations are the best -and sometimes pitiless- judges...
Anyway TFK is a great band but is not one of my top 10...
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... E N E L B U N K E R...
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Flip_Stone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 388
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 13:00 |
THAT'S A GOOD ONE!!!! WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO BE FUNNY TODAY, RIGHT?
Nope, The Flower Kings aren't as good as Genesis. They are billions of miles away from the level of originality or creativity of Genesis. The Flower Kings reuse and regurgitate material from the past, add some flashiness to it, over-emphasize the singing for lame "dramatic effect", and then extend the songs to 10 or 20 times the length of time they should in order to fill up as many CD's as possible at a time. If you really look at the music, I mean realistically and not buy into the hype, it's a joke.
The Flower Kings should be arrested for progressive posing, progressive sharades, and for recording excesses.
Edited by Flip_Stone - May 09 2006 at 13:04
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 12:01 |
Maybe better than 80's Genesis. 
-- Ivan
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:47 |
Nay, nay and thrice nay!
Which isn't to say that there's anything wrong with TFK, but if my house was burning down I'd rescue my Gabriel era Genesis albums well before anything by TFK (but after Magma and King Crimson, obviously).
Edited by Syzygy - May 09 2006 at 08:51
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:31 |
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I haven't read the rest of the posts here, but no.
Just no.
I like the Flower Kings, but as good as Genesis?
Well, OK, better than the album, "Genesis".
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 08:28 |
I don't know if they're better than Genesis or Yes or Pink Floyd, these bands are all outstanding. So it's all a matter of taste in the end, i sure like the Flower Kings more than Yes and Genesis, they're more or less equal to Floyd for me. I don't think much of the originality argument. I know that Yes was there before TFK and that TFK is influenced by Yes. My ears don't care about these things though, they just want hear good music and TFK delivers  .
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Norbert
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 20 2005
Location: Hungary
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 07:17 |
Fragile wrote:
The Flowers are a fine prog band who recreate the great sounds of 70's prog.They are highly talented and inventive and are greatly underrated by many.But to compare them to Genesis aka Gabriel is just silly.Enjoy them for what they are a modern prog band who can and still deliver excellent music but they cannot compare to the masters. |
Exactly what I think, good band, but not comparable with the masters.
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eddietrooper
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 27 2006
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 940
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Posted: May 09 2006 at 05:54 |
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Genesis with Gabriel can't be beaten by any post 70's band IMO.
That said, I must say that I like TFK and they have the merit of releasing more hours of music in ten years than many classic bands in all their careers. But probably if they had condensed their best ideas in three or four releases, their albums would be masterpieces and they would be very close to Genesis.
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: May 08 2006 at 21:47 |
Zitro wrote:
I never imagined myself saying this, but I think the Flower kings grown so much on me that I like them more than Yes (my previous #1 band), now I like them as much as Genesis and only Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are more enjoyable (and barely).
This band has everything I want: Consistency, a discography with no weak albums, very few weak tracks, Beautiful atmospherics that surpasses 70s yes (because of the modern technology), Good epics, a guitarist as complete as Steve Howe who has a neat bluesy vocal style, A great bass player that reminds me of David Lebon (Seru Giran), and some of the best percussion I've heard. The keyboardist is my least favourite member (after the new bass player and the drummers came), but he still manages to sound great most of the time. His album "I AM" is pretty good.
I wish this band would get more recognition. It has the virtuosity of Yes and the beauty of Genesis. I also like the general happy tone of it. It sounds like Progged-up beatles in the first albums.
Sometimes, they amaze me when they get influenced. "The World of Adventures" which is clearly influenced by the beatles sound as good as the beatles best songs. Rumble Twist Fish is clearly influenced by Camel, and it sounds better than anything Camel did.
By the way, in "hummanizmo" (one of my favourite epic from Roine by the way) has 2 things that just blow me away : The church organ riffary + "THIS IS THE NIGHT" and when the epic is about to end ... I hear an awesome wail from Roine. Trust me, it puts the dude from Pain of Salvation to shame.
Anyways, I'll stop rambling.
Flower Kings ---> Prog Kings.
I should edit my reviews as I like them much more as before.
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Wait a tick Zitro!!! David Lebon was Seru´s guitarist...that machine that is Pedro Azanar was the bassplayer!!!
I think I dont like The Flowers that much cause they are too happy for me...
A by the way the other day I met the guy that did the cover from Paradox Hotel...cool guy, has the best record store Ive ever seen...all prog!!! hehehe
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Rorro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2005
Location: Uruguay
Status: Offline
Points: 508
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Posted: May 08 2006 at 20:53 |
Zitro wrote:
I never imagined myself saying this, but I think the Flower kings grown so much on me that I like them more than Yes (my previous #1 band), now I like them as much as Genesis and only Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are more enjoyable (and barely).
This band has everything I want: Consistency, a discography with no weak albums, very few weak tracks, Beautiful atmospherics that surpasses 70s yes (because of the modern technology), Good epics, a guitarist as complete as Steve Howe who has a neat bluesy vocal style, A great bass player that reminds me of David Lebon (Seru Giran), and some of the best percussion I've heard. The keyboardist is my least favourite member (after the new bass player and the drummers came), but he still manages to sound great most of the time. His album "I AM" is pretty good.
I wish this band would get more recognition. It has the virtuosity of Yes and the beauty of Genesis. I also like the general happy tone of it. It sounds like Progged-up beatles in the first albums.
Sometimes, they amaze me when they get influenced. "The World of Adventures" which is clearly influenced by the beatles sound as good as the beatles best songs. Rumble Twist Fish is clearly influenced by Camel, and it sounds better than anything Camel did.
By the way, in "hummanizmo" (one of my favourite epic from Roine by the way) has 2 things that just blow me away : The church organ riffary + "THIS IS THE NIGHT" and when the epic is about to end ... I hear an awesome wail from Roine. Trust me, it puts the dude from Pain of Salvation to shame.
Anyways, I'll stop rambling.
Flower Kings ---> Prog Kings.
I should edit my reviews as I like them much more as before.
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The same thing happened to me. TFK has grown very very much on me. And i also agree they have everything, and i think it's far to compare the to yes or genesis. Musically i find them more refined htan genesis and yes, they jazzy influences and improvisation-like playing is quite simply amazing. I'm a bass player, and i'm a fan of chris squire, but i have to say that TFK's bassist impressed me more than Squire, his technique is admirable, and the drumming of TFK is woooow. This two elements combined makes TFK's music very very sofisticated, much more than Genesis and Yes music , but i recognise that TFK would never have existed if Genesis and Yes and some other bands have appeared first (they 've shown the way). Without a doubt The 70's symphonic prog were the ones who invented a style that every other symhponic band would later follow, but i enjoy more the music of bands like TFK, Anglagärd, Sinkadus, SB,.., and musically there's no doubt they are as good as the 70's, what makes them hjave more recognition is the innovation, they made things that were unexpectable, modern bands just keep doing what old ones were doing, but improving the quality.
To sum up, i think The Flower Kings should have far more recognition than he has actually.
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:50 |
The Flowers are a fine prog band who recreate the great sounds of 70's prog.They are highly talented and inventive and are greatly underrated by many.But to compare them to Genesis aka Gabriel is just silly.Enjoy them for what they are a modern prog band who can and still deliver excellent music but they cannot compare to the masters.
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:36 |
I certainly won't be investigating new neo-prog releases anymore, and my hopes for new symphonic music certainly does not rest on the movement. That's not to say I don't look forward to new music, of course, but now I'm looking towards the avant-garde side of the spectrum - bands like Ruins, Present, Thinking Plague and many more besides are still making challenging and rewarding music. Post-rock is not for me, but I'm interested in the bands that wrestle it into something more exciting, such as Guapo and Kayo Dot. Even on the more commercial side, The Mars Volta are an exciting band who play passionate, surprising music - even if they're little more than enthusiastic art rock, really. All that and possible new Rush and King Crimson albums keeps me contemporary.  Between these bands and the broad depth of past works of bands I've yet to sample, I don't think it's too much of a concern to entirely cut neo-prog from my listening..
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TOD KREMER
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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Posted: May 08 2006 at 19:24 |
laplace, Are you saying you've given up on all NEO Prog? That sounds a bit jaded.........
All the old stuff, we know in our sleep and it is always exciting to here something new that you like. I admit that you have to "kiss alot of frogs" and the return is a low % but I will always keep trying. I agree that it is debatable as to how fresh it may be.
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flower Kings ... as good as genesis??
