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Prog albums you think are a little overrated
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essexboyinwales View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

IQ - Resistance
hard agree, their weakest so far, very bland, very IQ-by-the-numbers. I don't get why people seem to love it so much


Weaker than Nomzamo? I'll say it probably shouldn't have been a double but I don't think it's that bad. Maybe on par with  Frequency (imo).


Yes, weaker than Nomzamo and all other IQ albums! Frequency is waaaaaay better….
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essexboyinwales View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Close To The Edge - although, TBH, I don’t really like it very much at all, so maybe I’m wrong to include it here!

Marbles - it IS a good album, but it’s not great. Too much filler!



If you dislike CTTE more than just a little that's ok too but I'm wondering what it is about the album that puts you off so much.


Why are you posting my quote if you aren't going to answer the question. 


I’ve tried twice but I don’t think the gremlins want to let me explain….
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Prog-jester View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Maybe on par with  Frequency (imo)
well it's the same level of comfort zone IQ by the numbers, but at least from Frequency I could still remember coupla tunes. Trying to remember anything from Resistance on the other hand makes my brain, well, resist
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Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

I remember in the 70s when Mahavishnu Orchestra released Apocalypse and Visions Of Emerald Beyond. A very large dosage of opinions from fans of the McLaughlin, Cobham,Laird, Hammer and Goodman line up were super negative and based on personal disappointment over the original band going their separate ways.

I would hear John McLaughlin and Jean Luc Ponty producing these timeless solos on Apocalypse and I was floored. Both of them were universally expressive during improvisation. I had difficulties in understanding how fans of the early Mahavishnu could not like this.

Maybe fans saw the first line up to be iconic in the sense that it changed Fusion. It was innovative. The 5 of them on stage in 1972 was a unique experience. Pieces like "Dance Of Maya" and "Birds Of Fire" filled the air with strato bombers and goblin fires and mystery. People desired for that to continue. John McLaughlin obviously was taking a different direction musically. Apocalypse and Emerald Beyond creating a different vibe . They featured singers and were spiritually different from Birds Of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame. I enjoy both periods. A lot of hard-core supporters don't.


When the line-up thoroughly consists of powerhouses, it's virtually guaranteed to be a temporary one (there are a few exceptions). Hammer and Cobham immediately jumped off to lasting solo careers, the former hitting the proverbial commercial jackpot a decade later. Goodman made some solo albums and eventually ended up in the Dregs when they needed a violinist. Laird found plenty to do and also made a solo album.

Hammer was the first to decide he was done when he learned McLaughlin was getting all the writing credit, even for a pure improvisation like "Sapphire Bullets of Pure Love."

I sure am glad Jan bailed, because right off the bat we got Like Children by Hammer & Goodman (which I prefer to anything M.O. did), the exceptional solo recording The First Seven Days, followed by his participation in Elvin Jones' On the Mountain and John Abercrombie's masterwork Timeless. Then: Jan Hammer Group! One win after another!
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I remember in the 70s when Mahavishnu Orchestra released Apocalypse and Visions Of Emerald Beyond. A very large dosage of opinions from fans of the McLaughlin, Cobham,Laird, Hammer and Goodman line up were super negative and based on personal disappointment over the original band going their separate ways.

I would hear John McLaughlin and Jean Luc Ponty producing these timeless solos on Apocalypse and I was floored. Both of them were universally expressive during improvisation. I had difficulties in understanding how fans of the early Mahavishnu could not like this.

Maybe fans saw the first line up to be iconic in the sense that it changed Fusion. It was innovative. The 5 of them on stage in 1972 was a unique experience. Pieces like "Dance Of Maya" and "Birds Of Fire" filled the air with strato bombers and goblin fires and mystery. People desired for that to continue. John McLaughlin obviously was taking a different direction musically. Apocalypse and Emerald Beyond creating a different vibe . They featured singers and were spiritually different from Birds Of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame. I enjoy both periods. A lot of hard-core supporters don't.

Edited by Jacob Schoolcraft - July 19 2024 at 13:32
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Close To The Edge - although, TBH, I don’t really like it very much at all, so maybe I’m wrong to include it here!

Marbles - it IS a good album, but it’s not great. Too much filler!



If you dislike CTTE more than just a little that's ok too but I'm wondering what it is about the album that puts you off so much.

Why are you posting my quote if you aren't going to answer the question. 
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

IQ - Resistance
hard agree, their weakest so far, very bland, very IQ-by-the-numbers. I don't get why people seem to love it so much

Weaker than Nomzamo? I'll say it probably shouldn't have been a double but I don't think it's that bad. Maybe on par with  Frequency (imo).
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I generally am not keen on the overrated and underrated terms unless one can refer to specific claims that are true or false, demonstrable, verifiable or unverifiable, and arguments that are valid or invalid / faulty.  There is little point in arguing tastes and saying that my opinion of art is better than other people's -- which is pretty arrogant and can lead to or be a sign of very insular thinking.  Like what music you like, dislike what you will, to each his or her own tastes.   We all experience music differently to some extent.  We have physical differences, mental differences... different psyches... experiences, associations, dispositions.

That said, a little less valued by me or a lot less than the majority opinion that I have observed would be Yes' Close to the Edge.  Well, I'd give it three stars.  With Magma, MDK (the studio album) is often said to be THE Zeuhl classic, and I understand and won't disagree, but while I used to love it, it has gone down in esteem for me (live versions are great).  I Like Magma's debut the most. Thinking Plague's In Extremis would be another (much prefer earlier Thinking Plague). I understand the love for Captain Beefheart's Troutmask Replica, and I have loved the album before, but unadventurous me would rather the comfort of Safe As Milk.  I would have said Tangerine Dream's Phaedra at one time, but now I love it.


Edited by Logan - July 19 2024 at 13:25
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

IQ - Resistance
hard agree, their weakest so far, very bland, very IQ-by-the-numbers. I don't get why people seem to love it so much

Strongly disagree. That's the album that finally broke down my Resistance to the sound of poor man's Gabriel imitator Peter Nicholls and Resistance still remains my favourite IQ album to this day.  

Horses for courses, the silence and sold sources. Smile
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Prog-jester View Drop Down
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

IQ - Resistance
hard agree, their weakest so far, very bland, very IQ-by-the-numbers. I don't get why people seem to love it so much
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom is overrated a lot.

I've noticed that too, although I would never say that. Tongue

By the same token, I could say my favourite band Mostly Autumn are overrated too, but only because I've given all of their albums the full five stars. Smile

In the end, it all comes down to subjective opinion, where a 1-star turkey for me could be a 5-star masterpiece (and vice versa) from someone else's perspective. Geek
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Close To The Edge - although, TBH, I don’t really like it very much at all, so maybe I’m wrong to include it here!

Marbles - it IS a good album, but it’s not great. Too much filler!



If you dislike CTTE more than just a little that's ok too but I'm wondering what it is about the album that puts you off so much.
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essexboyinwales View Drop Down
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IQ - Resistance
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Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom is overrated a lot.
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From my favourite band/artist:

Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet
Steven Wilson - The Raven that refused to sing
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Genesis - Nursey Crime
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According to my tastes/evaluations, I see many albums very (and little) overrated in PA Top 200.

For example, very overrated:

1) JT: Thick as a Brick
2) Genesis: Nursery Crime
3) Gentle Giant: In A Glass House
4) Rush: all the albums
5) Pink Floyd: Meddle
6) Yes album
7) Camel: The Snow Goose 
8) Al di Meola: all the albums
9) Mahavishnu Orchestra: All the albums
10) Opeth: all the albums
11) Anglagard all the albums
12) Death: all the albums
13) Riverside: all the albums
14) Return to forever: all the albums

overrated/little overrated:

1) Yes: Fragile and little overrated Close to the edge
2) Genesis: Selling England and little overrated Foxtrot
3) Vdgg: Still Life and little overrated Godbluff
4) Pink Floyd: Animals and little overrated Dark Side
5) Camel: Moonmadness and Mirage
6) PFM: Per un amico and Isola di niente
7) Banco: Io sono nato libero
8) Emerson Lake and Palmer: all the albums
9) Porcupine Tree /Steve Wilson: little overrated all the albums
10)  All Traps on Earth: lttle overrated all the albums
11) M. Oldfield: all the albums
12) Supertramp: little overrated Crime
13) King Crimson: litlle overrated Larks
14) Wobbler: litlle overrated all the albums
15) Gentle Giant: The Power and Free Hand
The, Little overrated Harmonium, Metropolis part 2, In The Land,  Obscura, De Pois do film etc.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Mystique Mystique wrote:

Änglagård Hybris
Tool Lateralus
The Mars Volta De-Loused in the Comatorium
Wobbler From Silence to Somewhere
Seven Impale Summit
Hybris is a stone cold classic though 
Hybris is a classic example of an overrated album.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Quite subjective topic, since it's based on personal taste, not on musical quality, knowledge, etc. I personally don't like the term "overrated," since it would mean I want to impose my views/taste over somebody's else.

Hi,

Agreed. I do think as well that saying that something as this, is rather weird .... I was about to state that the "influence" of others is a serious issue, otherwise you or I would never think of anything as such.

As an artist, stuff like this is a bummer. It takes away a lot of the beauty and effort that so many people have put together for an album. I guess it's different today since you can "compose" in your bed, or shower, and that "qualifies one to say something else is "overrated"? Blame Byron, who used to write some of his poetry in the bath!

Definitely weird!
Absolutely. Many artist put a lot of effort in the writing, instrumenting, orchestrating, recording, etc. of an album, just to be labeled "overrated" by somebody who doesn't have a clue how to do this, sometimes they don't even know how to play an musical instrument, let alone know how to write a song, only because it doesn't appeal to their taste. It seems quite unfair to me, honestly, and I don't agree with it at all. Of course it's only my opinion, but I'm glad there're at least a few people who agree with me.
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Sometimes I do think that the perspective from which albums are judged makes a big difference. Crime Of The Century is a perfect example. Great ''prog album'? Nope. Great ''arty pop album''?. Sure thing!
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Genesis- "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway ...my seventh favorite Genesis album

Miles Davis- "Kind of Blue"  ...not in my top ten Davis albums

Harmonium- "Si On Avait Besoin D'une Cinquieme Saison"...I like this album, but not a top 200 prog album for me...Hard for me to understand why it's a top-thirty all-time album 

Supertramp- "Crime of the Century"..Not a top 100 album in my book



Edited by omphaloskepsis - July 18 2024 at 10:29
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