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Cool to see Jellyfish appreciation here. Such an incredible band- there's a good reason Brian Wilson wanted to write songs with those guys.
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^ What? Bad words about REO Speedwagon? Go wash your mouth! Tongue

It's true that they explored their formula to the bone, but at moments it worked very well (as their popular success shows). Much of their work may be formulaic, but some of it is just very well written and arranged rock music, by moments even spectacular! I don't think it is fair to say it is bad music and a more thorough listen will show that. It is catchy, formulaic, but not necessarily bad. Some albums are quite boring (of those that I've heard) because they don't change their formula that much, but You Can Tune a Piano But You Can't Tuna Fish and Hi Infidelity are very enjoyable albums: well written (both music and lyrics) and fun to listen to (that's why you sang along!).

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

never heard of them but it looks like they're the least prog out of these

Yep pretty terrible band. I can remember going round to my sister when the rules on meeting up during the pandemic were being relaxed and singing along ( i was very drunk in my defenceSmile) to one of REO's cheesy 80's hits. They were the very worst of the overproduced US radio bands. Not a creative bone in them.
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My MOR Prog  Top 12 - all of which I want more of. Smile

Asia
Barclay James Harvest
Chicago
Journey
Kansas
Manfred Mann's Earth Band
The Moody Blues
Alan Parsons Project
Procol Harum
Styx
Supertramp
Toto
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The peak sales for that type of AOR must have been that early 80s span.

REO Speedwagon - Hi Infidelity (1980)
Styx - Paradise Theater (1981)
Foreigner - 4 (1981)
Journey - Escape (1981)
Toto - IV (1982)
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They were really big and considered AOR with the likes of the bands you mentioned. As was Foreigner.
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never heard of them but it looks like they're the least prog out of these
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^Add REO Speedwagon, and you've got a Big Five.
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is there a Big Four Of AOR? Toto, Styx, Boston, Journey?
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Tears for Fears-The Hurting
Toto-IV
Fates Warning-Parallels
The Police-Reggatta de Blanc
China Crisis-Flaunt the Imperfection
Talk Talk-The Colour of Spring
Triumph-Surveillance
Queensryche-Empire
Alan Parsons Project-Turn of a Friendly Card
Al Stewart-Time Passages
Saga-Silent Knight
Circus Maximus-Isolation
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Indeed!  Adrian convinced Bob Fripp and King Crimson to relocate to Champaign for a while!  It's a very nice town (I spent enough time there, 1973-77 and more).  Please see:



Yes!

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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^I would agree with you if you said Point of Know Return or Audio Visions but imo Leftoverture is pure prog.


All their first 5 albums are pure prog but to my ears only the first 2 are symphonic in the English tradition that they were being influenced by. Masque was the start of a shorter more commercial based approach. Generally I only listen to their first 2 albums in their entiriety and the last 3 albums. 

On this thread generally people are including crossover bands as well as AOR bands so it's a bit messy anyway.

Most would accept Asia's debut is AOR but is there such a massive difference between that and Leftoverture? Take out Magnum Opus (which personally I find a little weak) and I don't see that much. I do like Kansas and count them as a favourite band (more so than say Gentle Giant) so it's not about trying to put them down in any way. They were certainly one of the best American bands (AOR can also mean American Orientated Rock) along with Chicago and The Tubes. IMO


"Magnum Opus" is good but I've always liked the rest of the album tons more, especially "Cheyenne Anthem" and "Miracles Out of Nowhere," which along with "Carry on Wayward Son" are what drop a vast sea between Leftoverture and Asia.

I'm a fan of all the guys in Asia (original 4tet), but let's be honest, they set out to make an airplay-centric melodic rock record with no shortage of potential singles. It's nowhere near U.K. territory. The arrangements are polished but formulaic. The melodies are good, the playing is finessed but they never tear it up. After his stellar playing on Drama. Downes sounds incredibly restrained, if by his own design.

OTOH, Leftoverture is a chops fest, though a very tastefully rendered one. Kerry Livgren's one of my favorite musical entities, the guy could exhale on his strings and it'd probably sound good. Kansas made five extraordinary (prog) albums in a row, which is no mean feat for any band.


When I first listened to Kansas I just didn't get the same feeling for Leftoverture that I had for much classic prog. I would maintain that like Asia's debut it is very restrained and is looking towards commercial radio. Side 2 of the Asia album matches the best material that you named on Leftoverture. Wildest Dreams is pure prog and I love Downes outro on Cutting It Fine , one of the best ever for me.  I think they do 'tear it up' on those tracks. Add to that Sole Survivor and Time and Time Again and it has some good proggy nods. Perhaps Monolith is a better comparison but I find that album quite barren creatively.



I don't disagree that Monolith is lacking. To me it sounds unfinished, rushed. There are good ideas, as always, but it needed more polishes, more refinement.

I must confess you're the only guy I've known to bring a Leftoverture-Asia comparison to the table. One thing we'll agree on is "Cutting it Fine" is probably the best song on the latter.

Apart from that, I don't hear how Side 2 is better than that of Leftoverture, but we'll just leave it there. "Cheyenne Anthem," to me, is one of Livgren's finest moments as a composer. I think it's brilliant.

I'd sooner compare the album Kansas brought out the same year, Vinyl Confessions, but that might also be a mismatch since, while not a concept album, there's an overt theme.


Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Ofcourse Asia never matched the brilliance of Kansas re Song For America but then later Kansas never matched that either (IMO). I actually enjoy the last few albums a lot and they sound better to my ears than mid seventies (75-77) Kansas. I would also add Somewhere To Elsewhere as one of the best comeback albums by any classic prog or rock band. Steve Walsh's last contribution to Kansas but sublime nevertheless.


Please give Freaks of Nature another go. I think it's overlooked. It's unique in that has a darker vibe and Williams is the sole guitarist. "Desperate Times" and "Cold Grey Morning" (a pure Livgren piece, though he's not on the album) are worth the price of admission.


Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I saw the band at Shepherds Bush Empire in London around that time and they cooked on gas. People were doing the whole 'we are not worthy' in Walsh's direction!
BTW I saw Asia there as well a few years later and the place was packed to the rafters. Another great gig and they played all of their debut. Good memories.


Indeed!
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Criswell Criswell wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

I was listening to Demon - The Plague today. I think that might count. Maybe a bit on the harder side of rock.

As far as the REO Speedwagon of prog, that's got to be Moon Safari.

I went to university in Champaign, Illinois USA (University of Illinois), where REO Speedwagon had their origin!!  In those years (1973-77), Champaign was renowned for our bands!!  REO used to play street dances and local gigs at bars, they were very popular with the students and "townies!"  A movie about that era was made, see https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEHPP_EmL2qDHm4egl4K9v_Xen7WopVoq

The original vocalist for REO, Terry Luttrell, left REO and eventually ended up as vocalist for the Yes-like band "Starcastle!"  Starcastle were HUGELY popular in Champaign back then, and their first LP had constant rotation on college radio!!   They were an amazingly energetic and charismatic band, playing all sorts of covers by Rolling Stones, Elton John and others as well as their originals!  

BTW, I don't consider them a "Yes-Clone," their vocalization style was very much influenced by Flash vs. Yes.   Gary Strater helped to give them that Yes sound with his Rickenbacker-Squire style, and keyboardist Herb Schildt was a master of the Hammond organ!!  These were rather rare instruments for bar bands in those years. 



Adrian Belew spent a few years here also (I've been a Champaign native since 1984). He's claimed that his band The Bears were born in Champaign. He always made it a point to swing his tours through town.

Indeed!  Adrian convinced Bob Fripp and King Crimson to relocate to Champaign for a while!  It's a very nice town (I spent enough time there, 1973-77 and more).  Please see:
I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^I would agree with you if you said Point of Know Return or Audio Visions but imo Leftoverture is pure prog.


All their first 5 albums are pure prog but to my ears only the first 2 are symphonic in the English tradition that they were being influenced by. Masque was the start of a shorter more commercial based approach. Generally I only listen to their first 2 albums in their entiriety and the last 3 albums. 

On this thread generally people are including crossover bands as well as AOR bands so it's a bit messy anyway.

Most would accept Asia's debut is AOR but is there such a massive difference between that and Leftoverture? Take out Magnum Opus (which personally I find a little weak) and I don't see that much. I do like Kansas and count them as a favourite band (more so than say Gentle Giant) so it's not about trying to put them down in any way. They were certainly one of the best American bands (AOR can also mean American Orientated Rock) along with Chicago and The Tubes. IMO


"Magnum Opus" is good but I've always liked the rest of the album tons more, especially "Cheyenne Anthem" and "Miracles Out of Nowhere," which along with "Carry on Wayward Son" are what drop a vast sea between Leftoverture and Asia.

I'm a fan of all the guys in Asia (original 4tet), but let's be honest, they set out to make an airplay-centric melodic rock record with no shortage of potential singles. It's nowhere near U.K. territory. The arrangements are polished but formulaic. The melodies are good, the playing is finessed but they never tear it up. After his stellar playing on Drama. Downes sounds incredibly restrained, if by his own design.

OTOH, Leftoverture is a chops fest, though a very tastefully rendered one. Kerry Livgren's one of my favorite musical entities, the guy could exhale on his strings and it'd probably sound good. Kansas made five extraordinary (prog) albums in a row, which is no mean feat for any band.

When I first listened to Kansas I just didn't get the same feeling for Leftoverture that I had for much classic prog. I would maintain that like Asia's debut it is very restrained and is looking towards commercial radio. Side 2 of the Asia album matches the best material that you named on Leftoverture. Wildest Dreams is pure prog and I love Downes outro on Cutting It Fine , one of the best ever for me.  I think they do 'tear it up' on those tracks. Add to that Sole Survivor and Time and Time Again and it has some good proggy nods. Perhaps Monolith is a better comparison but I find that album quite barren creatively. Of course Asia never matched the brilliance of Kansas re Song For America but then later Kansas never matched that either (IMO). I actually enjoy the last few albums a lot and they sound better to my ears than mid seventies (75-77) Kansas. I would also add Somewhere To Elsewhere as one of the best comeback albums by any classic prog or rock band. Steve Walsh's last contribution to Kansas but sublime nevertheless. I saw the band at Shepherds Bush Empire in London around that time and they cooked on gas. People were doing the whole 'we are not worthy' in Walsh's direction!
BTW I saw Asia there as well a few years later and the place was packed to the rafters. Another great gig and they played all of their debut. Good memories. 
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

I was listening to Demon - The Plague today. I think that might count. Maybe a bit on the harder side of rock.

As far as the REO Speedwagon of prog, that's got to be Moon Safari.

I went to university in Champaign, Illinois USA (University of Illinois), where REO Speedwagon had their origin!!  In those years (1973-77), Champaign was renowned for our bands!!  REO used to play street dances and local gigs at bars, they were very popular with the students and "townies!"  A movie about that era was made, see https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEHPP_EmL2qDHm4egl4K9v_Xen7WopVoq

The original vocalist for REO, Terry Luttrell, left REO and eventually ended up as vocalist for the Yes-like band "Starcastle!"  Starcastle were HUGELY popular in Champaign back then, and their first LP had constant rotation on college radio!!   They were an amazingly energetic and charismatic band, playing all sorts of covers by Rolling Stones, Elton John and others as well as their originals!  

BTW, I don't consider them a "Yes-Clone," their vocalization style was very much influenced by Flash vs. Yes.   Gary Strater helped to give them that Yes sound with his Rickenbacker-Squire style, and keyboardist Herb Schildt was a master of the Hammond organ!!  These were rather rare instruments for bar bands in those years. 



Adrian Belew spent a few years here also (I've been a Champaign native since 1984). He's claimed that his band The Bears were born in Champaign. He always made it a point to swing his tours through town.
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Pictures was an Italian band that released only one album in the second half of the 1990s, indicating that their career was probably relatively short. The 1997 release of "Painting the Blue" by Musea Records featured what could be considered AOR-prog music. Indeed, its music has every characteristic of that subgenre: bright synth sounds, engaging songs with outstanding vocals and a very melodic manner, distinctive, often heavy guitar riffs, and gorgeous solos that were performed with finesse. The songs aren't very complicated, but they were sung with a lot of heart.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

The Belgian band Now, fronted by guitarist and singer Vincent Fis, was arguably the finest AOR-prog band on the continent in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They created strong, dynamic AOR-prog, a fashionable fusion of the U.S.-style hard-rock and British neo-prog. This four-piece ensemble, which featured a lady as well, sounds incredibly colourful, intricate, and lyrical in that AOR-prog kind of way. "Deep" is their third and final album, released in 1992. The album has five songs, one of which is a cover of Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir''. Really, that cover is quite excellent and proggy. And Vincent Fis has incredible guitar skills. After this record, Now disbanded, and its talented keyboard player, Hervé Borbé, joined the venerable Belgian band Machiavel.




I own/like this band (a pity they folded), but Deep isn't AOR.
Instead of asking for some pure AOR, the original poster actually asked for "the AOR side of Prog." That's the reason I posted "Deep" by Now; in my opinion, its sound is somewhere in between AOR and Neo Prog, akin to the "White" CD that I discussed in my first post on this thread.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^I would agree with you if you said Point of Know Return or Audio Visions but imo Leftoverture is pure prog.


All their first 5 albums are pure prog but to my ears only the first 2 are symphonic in the English tradition that they were being influenced by. Masque was the start of a shorter more commercial based approach. Generally I only listen to their first 2 albums in their entiriety and the last 3 albums. 

On this thread generally people are including crossover bands as well as AOR bands so it's a bit messy anyway.

Most would accept Asia's debut is AOR but is there such a massive difference between that and Leftoverture? Take out Magnum Opus (which personally I find a little weak) and I don't see that much. I do like Kansas and count them as a favourite band (more so than say Gentle Giant) so it's not about trying to put them down in any way. They were certainly one of the best American bands (AOR can also mean American Orientated Rock) along with Chicago and The Tubes. IMO


"Magnum Opus" is good but I've always liked the rest of the album tons more, especially "Cheyenne Anthem" and "Miracles Out of Nowhere," which along with "Carry on Wayward Son" are what drop a vast sea between Leftoverture and Asia.

I'm a fan of all the guys in Asia (original 4tet), but let's be honest, they set out to make an airplay-centric melodic rock record with no shortage of potential singles. It's nowhere near U.K. territory. The arrangements are polished but formulaic. The melodies are good, the playing is finessed but they never tear it up. After his stellar playing on Drama. Downes sounds incredibly restrained, if by his own design.

OTOH, Leftoverture is a chops fest, though a very tastefully rendered one. Kerry Livgren's one of my favorite musical entities, the guy could exhale on his strings and it'd probably sound good. Kansas made five extraordinary (prog) albums in a row, which is no mean feat for any band.
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

The Belgian band Now, fronted by guitarist and singer Vincent Fis, was arguably the finest AOR-prog band on the continent in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They created strong, dynamic AOR-prog, a fashionable fusion of the U.S.-style hard-rock and British neo-prog. This four-piece ensemble, which featured a lady as well, sounds incredibly colourful, intricate, and lyrical in that AOR-prog kind of way. "Deep" is their third and final album, released in 1992. The album has five songs, one of which is a cover of Led Zeppelin's "Kashmir''. Really, that cover is quite excellent and proggy. And Vincent Fis has incredible guitar skills. After this record, Now disbanded, and its talented keyboard player, Hervé Borbé, joined the venerable Belgian band Machiavel.




I own/like this band (a pity they folded), but Deep isn't AOR.
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