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Roger Waters Time Redux |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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Would surely be nice to be a famous reviewer for a magazine and receive all these advance copies
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Online Points: 21283 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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^I was speaking in general terms, I specifically used the phrase "most people" to indicate that there are exceptions. It also works the other way round, I freely accept that I am probably wrong on many things as well.
In particular, calling people "sheep" is overly simplistic, I have NEVER done that. It's ok in novels and records (Animal Farm, Animals), but in reality people are much more clever than they're given credit for. But at the same time, governments are also using clever ways of tricking us. Ever heard of the term "nudging"? A clever euphemism in its own right. Think of that when you next hear the phrase "Putin's war" or "Putin's Invasion".
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15139 |
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^ Politics is not about being a nice person (are we?), and I'm very tired of the portrayal of people who are more worried about the Russian warmongers than the NATO these days as naive believers of mainstream media and sheep easily manipulated by American interests. Categories such as good and evil are extremely simplistic and even claiming that this is how the other side in a conversation thinks isn't getting anywhere near an interesting take on this. As long as this is your perception of the people you discuss with, these people have very very good reasons not to trust your perceptions of anything else. But then this is not the topic of this thread anyway and the thread about the war itself was closed for good reason...
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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^ Yes. Our leaders, with the support of media, are doing their best to create the impression that NATO=good and Putin=evil. The idea that both might be evil doesn't even occur to most people. It's a fascinating social experiment. It's even more astounding considering the horrible people at the helm in the West. Does anyone think that Joe Biden is a nice person - or Justin Trudeau, or Olaf Scholz (Germany), or Trump? Yet we assume that they must have the noblest of motives when it comes to important geopolitical issues. We wouldn't leave them alone in a room with our children, yet if you criticise them publicly, you must be an evil, antisemite nazi conspiracy theorist idiot.
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20408 |
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Yeah, I don't trust our "own side" for theses infox (toxic info) cold-war propaganda. First, Ukraine is not to be trusted anymore than Russia for these announcements (it's just as rotten to the core), but we cannot allow ourselves to trust any NATO reports either. TBH, pre-Zelenski's Ukraine is just as much to blame for this war (even if it is the victim), as it was oppressing its Russian minority ever since 2008 (after the democratically-elected pro-russian president was ousted by force). The UN clearly states that a non-rogue country must protect its own minorities (that includes the Chechens, Wlado ![]() NATO is just as toxic as the ex-USSR was (even if we're glad that NATO still exists), ever since the turn of the millennium. The worst part is that with the war it helped create (via its own expansion towards the East), NATO has now justified its own existence for the next decades to come. .
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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You should definitely not trust my opinion. Your assumption is wrong though - where in this thread have I indicated that I "get my opinion" from Roger Waters? You have no idea what my sources are. Here's one (of many) with a few more credentials. It is true though that none of us has any chance of really KNOWING what is going on in the world, it is all filtered through the sources we choose and the decisions we make on which pieces of information are trustworthy, and which are not.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 04 2023 at 05:45 |
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10678 |
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^ I don't own a TV and I don't care for TV news, but I certainly don't trust your opinion at all. Actually it could be said that you get your opinions from billionaire rock stars who live in modern day gilded castles.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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No, the Western model is built on expansion in terms of economic markets. It's not a stable system, since Earth is finite every now and then it runs into the problem that the markets get saturated. Large military conflicts are a convenient solution to the problem, since they destroy so much infrastructure and wealth in the general population, restoring the growth potential.
Same here. There are quite a few musicians which I do not agree with on a number of topics, but I'll still listen to their music. As an example, I've never been religious, but Neal Morse is one of my most favorite musicians ever.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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How do we even know that this is the case? Through the evening news? Cannot trust them on matters of national importance. We know this is obviously true in Russia, but as history shows, it is true in the West as well. Has been in every major war that I can recall. |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15139 |
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NATO was expanded because countries in middle/eastern Europe wanted to join, and Jelzin's Russia was fine with that. I know enough people from former Warsaw Pact states to know that these were not pushed against their will into NATO by the Americans.
This can be said (and actually is said) about pretty much everything that happens in world politics, and we have ample proof that it can surely be achieved without this war. Anyway, I don't agree with Waters on this one but I tend to listen to musicians as far as I enjoy the music and to not have that too tarnished by some controversial views that they hold. Edited by Lewian - October 04 2023 at 04:59 |
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progaardvark ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Online Points: 52496 |
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I can understand the reasoning behind this, but I think China has bigger problems of their own. The biggest one is an inevitable demographic collapse from their one-child policy. Some have argued that this is already happening and the limited data coming out of China is hiding this. Inevitably this is going to lead to an economic collapse that's going to have repercussions throughout the world for countries that rely on specific resources from China. The U.S.'s move away from globalization is a move in the right direction, but it's coming too late. Further, Xi Jinping has pretty much eliminated any political competition he might have within China, has surrounded himself by "yes men," and has consolidated his power. It doesn't seem like he understands the seriousness of the situation and this is a bad time for a country to have a leader like this. Russia is also in the middle of a demographic crisis, though not as severe as what China is or will experience, but this war is exasperating Russia's problems. Who would have ever imagined Russia looking to North Korea for weapons?
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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^ Yes, but it is not only the investors in the military industry who are making money off a war - it's also those who pick up companies and land dirt-cheap in the razed countries only to profit massively from the money sent there as humanitarian aid. Then there's also the Nordstream coup which has boosted profits from US liquid gas sales, not to mention the money made from investing in "green" energy there and all over Europe, as we move away from "dirty" (and cheap) Russian gas.
What does that actually mean? Who paid something here, and to whom? Is this really a transfer from wealthy people in the west to poor people in the Ukraine? No, of course not. Here's what happens: The US government borrows the money ($ 75B) and sends it to the Ukrainian government. They distribute it as they see fit, meaning that most of it ends up with the oligarchs. Remember that Ukraine is still one of the most corrupt states in Europe (only topped by Moldavia). These oligarchs probably keep some of the money for themselves, some is put into humanitarian aid (to keep up appearances), but a lot of the money eventually flows back to the same investors that the US borrowed the money from in the first place. It's a great racket - as Easy Money put it, the "general population" in every country is losing money, getting poorer, making sacrifices, while the rich and powerful are getting more rich and powerful.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10678 |
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^ He is referring to arms manufacturers and their stock holders and investors, but yes, overall the general population in every country is losing money, especially Ukraine.
Edited by Easy Money - October 03 2023 at 19:03 |
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Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17964 |
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I'm not sure I understand your comment that..."The ugly truth about the war is that powerful people in the West are profiting from it"....Who are these powerful people? A simple google search says the US has sent over USD75billion in aide to Ukraine, I also read the European union has provided more funds than that. Russia has spent equivalent of about USD55.4 billion on the war, I also read. Not sure what all this means but who in the west is making money off the war? I would have to think Russia is secretly wishing the war would end so they don't go into bankruptcy.....but then you have China, probably helping fund Russia as well providing weapons and tech for the war. China will keep Russia afloat after the war is over is my guess. I don't know.........still don't know who in the west is making money off the war.
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progbethyname ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 30 2012 Location: HiFi Headmania Status: Offline Points: 7859 |
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Love Roger Waters. I’ll be buying his Darkside of the Moon redux and his lockdown sessions album as well this month. The guy is awesome and he is 80 years old. Amazing longevity this man has. Most men these days are burnt out at 50. Hard not to respect him. Yes. He’s a hard man in some ways, but this day and age you have to be. He doesn’t fall in with the sheeple herd. Quite frankly, neither do I.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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^ Did NATO not agree not to expand eastward after the cold war had ended, only to do so anyway? AFAIK that's just a fact. If you had actually listened to RWs speech before the UN you would know that he condemns the invasion and hardly comes across as acting "on behalf of Putin".
The ugly truth about the war is that powerful people in the West are profiting from it. It will continue as long as they please, and since Russia is also benefiting, they see no reason to end it either. That leaves "normal" people all over the world to pay the price, with the Ukrainians at the forefront. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 03 2023 at 15:48 |
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Automated Hero ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: September 04 2022 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Just the sort of thing anyone who supports the rights of the Ukrainian people to live lives free from bombs and guns does |
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10678 |
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Bless the sycophant protecting his billionaire master.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21548 |
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^ Can you give an example of an incorrect statement he made about Russia?
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