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Which self-indulgent album is your favourite?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2022 at 23:37
Self-endulgent? Playing with yourself and hopefully conjuring up something interesting. Can of course also be a negative, where the accolade simply means X artist staring way too deep into the more boring parts of their belly-button. Can work both ways.
Anyhoo Atom Heart Mother, The Lamb and X could all be described as such..and I love them all.

I will say this though. More often than not it’s the actual music that ends up turning me off. Not necessarily the deeper thought or indeed ideas behind. Put another way: I love Dave Grohl. Love his drumming and his whole persona. Seems like such a nice guy and furthermore knows a thing or two about rock music. In fact he tends to say all the right things. He even have some deeper thought running through some of lyrical content which I rather like…but the music and delivery simply falls flat on it’s face to me.
Same thing with Danish rock semi-deity Tim Christensen who says all the right things and has a multitude of seriously interesting ideas and influences from all over the map…he even plays a mean guitar…yet musically I’m bored out of my mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2022 at 20:34
Also, if an album is described as “self indulgent”, that usually makes me more interested in hearing it, not less. Something about a musician going off the deep end without a road map and trying something beyond their reach is really appealing to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2022 at 20:30
Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Probably Atom Heart Mother.

Nice one! I love this one too.
This, and Passion Play for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2022 at 20:25
I guess Rick Wakeman's Myths and Legends of King Arthur would fit the bill... that one would be my favourite, easily. I find it weird I have not seen him in this discussion... nor ELP for that matter, unless I passed them by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 17:06
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

"A frequent criticism at the time was of 'self indulgence'. In practice, when you let rip this is always a risk. In principle, to consider acting in accordance with one's musical sense-of-rightness as indulgent is a terrifying commentary upon the extent to which our culture has become aberrant in its values and out-of-touch with its innate humanity. Young musicians of the time who were self-indulgent were not, as far as my perception went, playing what was true for them but what they believed to be in fashion."
--Robert Fripp, 1992
So is he saying that the Golden Era of Prog was young musicians playing 'self-indulgent' music they didn't believe in just because it was fashionable? That's what I understand from it anyway, and in my idealistic mind I'd like to believe that wasn't true much of the time.

Maybe, but I took it as him saying it wasn't the progressive artists by definition that were being indulgent, but rather it was the ones taking the easier & quicker way to making a living.





Edited by Atavachron - March 30 2022 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 16:49
I was wondering about what qualifies as "self indulgent" and sort of decided that any music that is recorded for the sake of artistic expression rather than a concern for commercial considerations would fit the bill. Under those circumstances that would apply to just about any thing that can be categorized as progressive music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cactus Choir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 03:13
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

"A frequent criticism at the time was of 'self indulgence'. In practice, when you let rip this is always a risk. In principle, to consider acting in accordance with one's musical sense-of-rightness as indulgent is a terrifying commentary upon the extent to which our culture has become aberrant in its values and out-of-touch with its innate humanity. Young musicians of the time who were self-indulgent were not, as far as my perception went, playing what was true for them but what they believed to be in fashion."

--Robert Fripp, 1992

So is he saying that the Golden Era of Prog was young musicians playing 'self-indulgent' music they didn't believe in just because it was fashionable? That's what I understand from it anyway, and in my idealistic mind I'd like to believe that wasn't true much of the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 03:04
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   

Not gonna lie, I definitely wouldn't have gotten that unless you said it. I think it was because I was expecting it to be another full-fledged prog band like the others LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:23
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   

Moby Dick and Dazed & Confused are definitely self indulgent indeed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:20
Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:15
I literally looked up all the major 70s prog bands on Wikipedia and there's seriously nothing with that abbreviation, lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:12
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?

I spent a good hour or two of research trying to find what it's an acronym for, and I'm still empty-handed LOL

SRtS?! Confused I can't figure it out either. I bet it's something obvious and famous, too. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:09
Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?

I spent a good hour or two of research trying to find what it's an acronym for, and I'm still empty-handed LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 19:51
I mean this in the nicest possible ways, but the last few albums by Nightwish fit the bill for me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 15:58
Thanks to José for the image.
(Yeah, I lifted it from a Vinyl Forum post.)


Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 14:39
Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.

right, pretty much so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duddick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 13:56
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 13:47

Too many to mention, even I don't think of them as "self-indulgent" - but some over the top, yes, like Thick as a Brick.

Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

A common theme involving prog - especially in the 70's - is that most acts fell into the trap of self-indulgence. This would be one of the main reasons for the rapid decline of prog in the second half of the seventies.

As I see it, the explanation is way more complex than that. Smile


Edited by David_D - March 29 2022 at 13:53
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 10:30
Tales
Lamb
War of the Worlds
BSS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 10:03
Define indulgent or self-indulgent.TongueLOL

1- mindlessly-long soloing in jam bands records 

2- mindless/uninteresting concept drowned out in a sea of overstretched ideas (Tubular bells and other Oldfield albums)

3- artistes repeating their usual formula for 3586th time in a row  (then TFK, Transatlantic and Steven Wilson are prime culprits, despite the KS/TD 50 years carreer)

4- any combinations (or all) of the above

Personally, I find that jazz has a lot more indulgent albums then in prog





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