Are RUSH actually Prog? |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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We need to have a scale that quantifies prog! Then we can at least pretend there's a standard of measure LOL.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
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More on Levin & funk fingers:
Jeb: My last two talk about two of your outside projects over the years. The first one is: tell me about your time with the band Yes. Tony: It was with ABWH (Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe) that I did recording and touring, and I had a great time with that. My Crimson pal, Bill Bruford, had brought me into the group. It was a nice challenge learning many of those great Chris Squire bass parts, and I had fun trying to use the Funk Fingers to make them sound a bit like me. What ended up as the Yes Union album was, for my part, another album with ABWH–the reunion with the other band members came after we'd recorded. And after that, when Yes re-formed, I went out to catch the show, just like all the fans, and much as I'd liked playing the music, I was relieved to hear Chris himself doing those parts, as it should be. |
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cstack3
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Well done, mate!
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Frenetic Zetetic
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The problem nobody is addressing is how to quantify prog, and by what standard?
Is RUSH more prog than PF? Is KC the standard? Is YES the archetype? How many progs is 1 prog, and whom has the most OF it...?
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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verslibre
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Because guys like you keep checking it!
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The Anders
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Why does this thread just go on and on?
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verslibre
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At its proggiest for Power Windows. |
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verslibre
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You're right, it was Peter's suggestion that he "attach the sticks to his fingers," but Tony said it was Jerry, not Peter. Then again, it happened a long time ago. Those guys probably don't remember or care. (But it was definitely a few years before ABWH.) "It started when, on Peter Gabriel's SO album, Jerry Marotta drummed on the bass strings for Big Time. Later, on tour, I was trying to simulate the riff with one stick - one day Peter looked at me doing it and said 'Why don't you attach the sticks to your fingers?' I turned to Andy Moore, my tech at the time, and asked him, 'Can we do that, Andy?' (Of course, I said 'WE' but HE's the one who designed a way to do it - first with a strap, then with a cutout and elastic loops for fingers.) We modified them a lot, and came up with a comfortable shape and different lengths for the two fingers." |
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SteveG
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Yes, but was Geddy's mullet prog?
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cstack3
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Actually, it was GABRIEL who invented the concept, by fooling around and playing Levin's bass strings with drumsticks in the studio once! I was actually paraphrasing Levin's own words from an old interview, i.e. Funk Fingers allowed him to emulate Squire's attack. Thanks for the additional information!
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verslibre
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Not to be that guy, but Tony Levin was already using the Funk Fingers with Peter Gabriel. It was Jerry Marotta who suggested Tony tie the sticks to his fingers because Tony was trying to replicate Marotta's percussive phrase (the one he played on bass strings for "Big Time") on tour. Tony credits his bass tech for making the first Funk Fingers for him. The funny thing about ABWH: When I saw them, Tony was ill and none other than Jeff Berlin was filling in! What a trip!
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verslibre
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Saga's nowhere near as proggy as those other bands, though. Saga's first three albums are wonderful, like a hybrid of Yes and early Styx with a dual keyboardist format and an almost exclusive reliance on Moog synths. I mean they used just about every Moog that was available at the time: MiniMoog, MicroMoog, PolyMoog, MemoryMoog, Liberation, you name it. You can see them in the Silhouette concert footage. So if you're a Moog freak and you haven't heard Saga's first few albums (Saga, Images at Twilight, Silent Knight, Worlds Apart), give them a listen. Saga transitioned away from complex arrangements during the recording of 1983's Heads or Tales. Behaviour and Wildest Dreams (which saw the exit of two key members) sound, er, worlds apart from what they'd done before — very FM friendly. But they never regained the momentum they had with Worlds Apart and they've never toured the US. After a few duds, they were back in form with 1999's Full Circle, an album I regard as one of their best. They resumed the "Chapters" and an approach closer to Silent Knight and Worlds Apart for the first time in years. The next few albums are really good! A friend of mine went to bassist Jim Crichton's Van Nuys studio (before he moved back to Canada) and met the line-up that recorded Trust. They were all there, in the midst of recording! They let a few select fans stop by one afternoon. I was stuck far away at work and couldn't make it.
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chopper
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Hmm, there's a whole world of difference between Xanadu and Livin' on a Prayer.
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BrufordFreak
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Rush are not as proggy as fellow country mates Saga, Mystery, Pollen, Maneige, Sloche, Opus-5, Hamdryad, Harmonium, The D Project, Conventum, or even Ptarmigan.
Too me, Rush were always more like Classic Rock--like The Who, Thin Lizzy, Queen, REO Speedwagon, 707, Loverboy, Journey, Foreigner, Boston, Ted Nugent/Damn Yankees, Def Leppard, and Bon Jovi. |
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Excellent, Mate! that's a beautiful bass! I have an Ibanez fretless 5 string, I love it. I'm mainly a guitar player (love that tremolo bar LOL) but playing bass exclusively for a good 7 years or so made me such a more well rounded musician. It all clicks like a big picture puzzle! Makes for making better prog with self and others lol . Cheers!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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chopper
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There is a lot of snobbery around picks and fingers amonst bass players. Personally I think it's all nonsense - I play mainly with fingers these days but for a different sound or for a lot of faster notes I use a pick.
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cstack3
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Thanks for sharing! I'm 66 and have played bass for 50 of those. I play "Close to the Edge" on a Rickenbacker bass to warm up, using a pick. This is my hand-made Manson bass guitar, made by Hugh Manson of Exeter, UK. Hugh is Steve Howe's luthier and also builds basses and other instruments for John Paul Jones, Martin Barre, and many others. I only play this finger-style. JPJ has the evil twin of mine, his is fretted - he calls it "Eric the Red." |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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It's like John Mayer saying he doesn't like Jimmy Page's guitarwork because Page plays Gibson (Mayer is a "Strat guy"). The specificity of it can get quite ridiculous, he makes it sound like a Strat is a totally different instrument and not just a different make.
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Frenetic Zetetic
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People that argue about preference of the tool use most often themselves severely lack in creativity regardless. I've played for years with a pick and get nothing but compliments on my playing, sound, feel, and technique. The most human thing is to miss the forest for the trees and think there's some universal check mate system for arguing a subjective enterprise such as any form of artistic expression has objective lanes you need to stay in, lol. People's inability to think creatively is only matched by their ease of being entertained by absolutely stupid sh*t like someone using a violin bow to play guitar. THAT'S cool; using a pick to play an electric bass GUITAR that makes the notes pop, allows for more harmonic control in tone, and precision? Nope, you suck! This points me back to my first assertion here.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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cstack3
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They are totally different in how they are used. I play with both fingers (all five on both hands) and Herco plectrum, i.e. Squire, Strater and many others. Greg Lake said it best....he played round-wound strings with a plectrum to "emulate the lower notes of a piano." A close listen to his music with ELP and KC bears this out. Squire was the master of the plectrum technique....during one part in "The Revealing Science of God," he plays a fretless Guild bass with a plectrum, and emulates the sound of an orchestra tympani drum, including its change of pitch. Absolutely brilliant and haunting! When Tony Levin filled in for Squire in the ABWH project, he had to invent a way to duplicate Squire's staccato attack, so he invented what he called "funk fingers" - short drum-sticks that he held onto his fingertips with rubber bands, allow him to hammer onto the round-wound strings as rapidly as Squire could play with a pick! It was brilliant to watch him onstage with ABWH! BTW, Chris Squire and Stanley Clarke were huge fans of each other's techniques!! |
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