The Musical Moron - rise of the Non Musician

Hi,

Davesax1965 wrote: .... The problem is that we only have one catch all term, "musician".  Perhaps it's important that musicians create something. Where I think it becomes interesting is when they create something unusual and interesting - and it's their own work.

wiz_d_kidd wrote: So what? Not everyone has the same skills, motivation, knowledge, practice, and time to become proficient, let alone master, an instrument -- or any subject for that matter. If jingle-jangling some chords and blabbing technical nonsense is his speed, let him! I'm sure he's happy. Your post sounds awfully judgemental and snobby, calling someone a moron, idiot and imbecile just because they're not as good as you.

Edited by moshkito - March 09 2019 at 07:28

Thanks, folks. It's not - honestly - an ad hominem attack on one individual - there are countless thousands like him - not is it "just don't play with him" - it was more a case of - for ten years, not even being able to get away from him or pull him up. "Works environment". 

You know when some nut case appears on a show like "Britain's got talent" - and they're clearly utterly talentless and self deluded and argumentative ? Now imagine not being able to get rid of them. For ten years. 

I think I mentioned I've been a teacher, and I go absolutely out of my way to help anyone. If someone is interested in learning music, I will help them, no matter what. The world needs more musicians  - proper ones. 

What it doesn't need is more people who THINK they're musicians, who show off the little they do know to appear "important". God, no. It used to happen back in the 70's and 80's, but with the rise of the internet, people are convincing themselves that watching a few YouTube videos and reading a few Wiki pages that they are some kind of authority. It seems to becoming endemic.

Musical snob, no. Everyone on this forum enjoys music which is written and performed by people with a high degree of skill. Progressive music stands out like a rare island in a sea of mediocrity and lack of talent. Let's encourage proper musicianship and the dedication it takes to craft proper music. And hope the idiots all go far, far away. 

I once had a co-employee who was like that with computers. He thought he knew all about them, but OMG -- if his job involved using a computer, the company would have been bankrupt in 10 minutes. I think he was a night watchman or a security guard.

That said, loosen up a little or just don't play with him. If he didn't think your advice was applicable, maybe it wasn't as far as his goals are concerned. Or maybe you didn't really demonstrate well enough how it could be applicable. People retain information they care about. What he needs to know is why he should care about the info that's being presented to him. No need to rant about him on the internet. What kind of music does he play?

Davesax1965 wrote: wiz_d_kidd wrote: Your post sounds awfully judgemental and snobby, calling someone a moron, idiot and imbecile just because they're not as good as you. It's not "he's not as good as I am" it's "he's appalling and acts like he's a genius".  It's like someone who drives to work every day suddenly thinking he's Mario Andretti and then talking about "the roundy wheel turner" to everyone in a tone of mock importance. "Oh yes, and the foot down pedal to make the engine turn about quickly."  And it's not just about one person, as this also applies to others. ;-)

I'm a drummer (insert drummer joke here) . I play out with a cover band on the weekends. I was never a full time pro but I do have a basic understanding of musical  theory , especially when it come to things like rhythms & time signatures.  I have played with several people over the years with  little or no understanding of musical terminology. Can't tell you how many times I have said something like " catch the quarter note triplets before the break"  & they tilt their head and look at me like my dog does when he hears a strange noise.  

Edited by Argo2112 - March 11 2019 at 08:40

Oh yes, pedantic. ;-) But I'll contend that one. ;-)

But you're asking if an orchestral musician can be compared to someone who takes seven months to record the worst version of Black Magic Woman ever. ;-) 

Orchestral musicians ARE musicians. We then go into semantics about what makes a musician, of course. The problem is that there's only one term - "musician" - and that covers an entire spectrum. Including the jingle janglers.

But what we're discussing here is someone of absolutely negligible skill level who spends his time bigging himself up to mammoth proportions. Jingle jangler he may be. OK, fine, so long as he realises he's a jingle jangler. But oh no, doesn't happen. 

I'd be fine saying "this is a fine orchestral musician" or "this is a fine improvising musician" (and there is a difference between the two, but what we are talking about is someone who is possibly the worst musician I've ever met in nearly 45 years, well, bottom five, who's bigging himself up by being at the wrong end of the Dunning Kruger scale.