Pirated again ! |
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handwrist
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 19 2019 Location: Lisbon Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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That is a lot of money, dude.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Yes but.
This is the keyboard section, there are guitars, basses, saxes etc etc etc. When you spend a little bit of money like this and 40 years playing, you tend to want a bit of professional respect. Some money would be nice. Giving it away is acceptable for some, and not for others. Four years soldering below, incidentally. And about $30,000. |
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handwrist
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 19 2019 Location: Lisbon Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I noticed when I started putting out albums on bandcamp that a bunch of Russian sites had put up the music for download for a price. To be honest, it doesn't bother me. I give it away for free on bandcamp. If someone wants to pay those guys I'm fine with it. Maybe they're boycotting bandcamp and don't want to interact with it. On the other hand, if those Russians get a sale off my music it's because the person was not smart enough to do a search to find it for free on bandcamp or elsewhere. I understand some people getting pissed off if they spent a lot of money on professional studios, musicians, mixers, etc. But since I do it all myself for the most part, and doing prog I know I will never get a lot of money anyway, for me it's not a big deal. For me it's nice if someone listens at all - in fact, I'm still surprised that my albums made it to this site at all. In today's world it's essentially impossible to avoid people downloading your music for free unless you don't release it online at all - and even then someone buys a physical record and puts it up. Technology is a double edged sword. Personally I prefer this situation where a couple of Russians might make 2 rubles off a couple of songs than being a slave to a record company.
Edited by handwrist - May 28 2019 at 08:12 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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What happens with Bandcamp (et al) is that people who can't be bothered to pay for streaming services elsewhere just use Bandcamp as a free radio station. They jump on it, find an artist and just play the music with no intention of buying the music.
If you want to rip music off Bandcamp, it's pretty simple, you just use a ripper. I've been thinking about "just playing with other musicians" and an interesting alternative came up. My brother's just doing a short music piece (free of charge) for Amnesty International. I've got a friend who does free music for film and theatre projects. Actually, I've done some theatre project work before (and enjoyed it) so !! That seems to be the way to go. I don't mind giving it away for nothing, I do mind being ripped off. ;-) |
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10232 |
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^ It can be the case for other sites, but I think Bandcamp isn't blocked anywhere.
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LAM-SGC
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 26 2018 Location: se Status: Offline Points: 1544 |
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Perhaps because some streaming services and websites are blocked in certain countries. Not everyone lives in a free country.
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LAM-SGC
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 26 2018 Location: se Status: Offline Points: 1544 |
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LOL!!! I was thinking that as well
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10232 |
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It took one week to have my new album pirated. I know I wouldn't get any money from the site users but I just don't get why share a low-quality download link when anyone can stream it for free on Bandcamp with the same quality. Particularly when I work on this site that divulge music without infringing copyright, there's no excuse for this.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Well, that's true enough, but - having done all the analytics (marketing and sales are my day job), $1300 worth of pirating equals no sales. ;-)
Unfortunately, I choose neither to be an optimist or pessimist but a realist. Again, it's not about the money or sales, but a basic reasonable two way relationship with artists and listeners. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not angry about this, just throwing up my hands in utter frustration with the way some people behave (or rather, how most people behave). It's just the internet and the modern world. Edited by Davesax1965 - January 13 2019 at 03:51 |
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ForestFriend
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 680 |
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Well, you can be a pessimist and be upset with how the current state of digital technology has changed the world... Or you can be an optimist and, assuming your assertion is correct, view the piracy as a sign of success in today's world. Because if 90% of your listeners are pirates, then 9 people pirating your album means one album sale, 90 pirates would mean 10 sales, etc. Perhaps 0 pirates mean your music isn't even worth listening to for free. Not saying you have to change your views, but this is just how I see it. Piracy is not something that will go away very easily in a world where it's trivial to transfer a couple hundred MB over the internet. You can threaten to stop making music, but that's an empty threat because someone else with a different perspective will keep on releasing their own stuff.
Edited by ForestFriend - January 12 2019 at 11:15 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Hi Lewian, no inconsistency.
I don't play for an audience, that's right, but there's no inconsistency in complaining when an audience appears and completely wipes their posteriors with you, in the vast majority of cases. It just convinces me more that I don't actually want an audience. ;-) Also. The point about copyright is this.... it allows an author of some artwork to determine how the artwork is distributed and to what audiences. I'd be upset if some rap artist sampled me. When you absolutely lose control of what you've made, it's a very unpleasant situation. |
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jayem
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2006 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 995 |
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No crime meant there. Piracy platforms happen to provide the simpliest ways to discover music (typically obscure albums on which no sample is available to listen to on amazon / bandcamp etc), and they don't always call themselves by their name... Once again this doesn't prevent us from supporting whatever band would deliver "magic"
Edited by jayem - January 12 2019 at 08:14 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14679 |
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Maybe the term "fan" is not quite right? I'm not necessarily a "fan" of what I like, I may like to listen to the music, it may give me a lot, still I may not be interested in any further "fan stuff" such as merchandise, being in contact with the musicians, picking up stuff just for completeness etc. The key communication between a musician and me happens when I listen to the music, same if somebody else listens to my music. What goes on on the musicians' website or elsewhere in most cases doesn't interest me much, apart from listening to good music. Music is for the ears! I pay for music but this is in the first place for rational and general ethical reasons as explained above, I just think it's "the right thing" to do, not for paying personal respect or communication. I may leave the odd "this is great" note to musicians because I know it's appreciated and they deserve it. However, the stuff that really matters to me is when listening and not at any other time on any other channel. And as a musician I like if people listen to it and like it but I don't mind much whether they throw money at me or not, neither do I mind much if I don't get any feedback. (Actually I have never even given anyone a chance to pay for my music as a "fan".) Davesax: In my perception it seems somewhat inconsistent that on one hand you state that you don't make your music for an audience in the first place and you can quite happily be without audience other than musicians with whom you play, but on the other hand you seem to mind quite a lot how the audience that you have actually behaves and it bothers you so much that most of them don't pay and just listen. |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14679 |
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You can go elsewhere to discover music in the first place.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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OK, we're agreed they're not fans. ;-)
Now, to expand the argument. You have, say, 500 followers on Bandcamp. 10 percent of them pay for music, 90 percent don't. When you put up an album for free, there are hundreds of downloads. When you charge anything at all for it, there are no downloads. Are these fans ? Or just hangers on and freeloaders ? I expect all the musicians here have the same proportions of payers when it comes to music. So. 90% of your fans are just freeloaders, at best. A proportion will pirate your music onto a download site. Some audience. ;-) |
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jayem
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2006 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 995 |
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Those pirates are definitely not fans, otherwise they'd at least contact the musicians and offer partnership etc. However, if we discover music that touches us on pirated website, won't there will be the same natural drive for us to go and look for a way to show appreciation and support the band, as if we did discover them in the CD store ?
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Well, OK, how about "disrespecting a band means ripping their music off and putting their entire back catalogue on a pirate download site " ?
I don't think I actually mentioned money. ;-) Edited by Davesax1965 - January 11 2019 at 06:17 |
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jayem
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2006 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 995 |
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I disagree that respecting a band means giving money, because there are lots of bands that obviously worked hard and play so well and deserve a lot of respect, but their vibes just don't fit to ours.
Won't we support our soul brothers and give money etc, even if we don't think they play that well and worked that hard, because their music has power on us, and we want more, so we invest...!?
Edited by jayem - January 11 2019 at 06:16 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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PS Thought just occurred to me. It's all about respect.
When your "audience of fans" stop buying music, hoover up the free stuff, don't contribute anything, rip you off and put your back catalogue on a free download website, they show you complete disrespect. Well, that's what 90% of them do nowadays. If that's the audience, excuse me if I reply with the same amount of disrespect and stop playing for them. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Unfortunately, everybody does at some point.
Non musicians tend to think that musicians somehow enjoy playing gigs and that the point of a musician is to go on stage and be adored or famous or rich or whatever. The point of being a musician is to play music. Well, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, opinions vary and some musicians live for playing gigs, but a fair few don't. Also, there's a difference between "playing a gig" and "playing for an audience". It only takes a few rowdy or disinterested (or non existant) audiences for you to realise that it's not all beer and skittles playing live music. Anyway, yes, some people love playing gigs, some don't. The role of the audience is an interesting one. An audience tends to think that musicians are playing for them - actually, a lot of musicans are actually having much more fun playing amongst themselves. If you took the audience away but left the money, I think a fair proportion of musicians would have an equally good time. Because I've been playing music so long - 43 years (probably too long ! ;-) ) I've realised that I've completely forgotten how non musicians think. I was having a chat with a friend at the train station today who's never realised I play saxophone. "Is it difficult ? " she said. "No, it's really easy to learn the basics, but to actually learn how to play takes a lifetime", I replied. We started talking, she'd had three piano lessons, that was it. Knowing "not a lot about music", she thought that Lady Gaga was very talented and creative. Basically, it was like two people from different planets having a chat. I'm trying to nicely say "well, if you want to listen to something interesting and creative..... " then I think I'm going to suggest Thelonious Monk to her and it'll go whoosh over her head. So part of the problem I find is that non musicians have no real idea of what it takes to become a musician, and therefore don't value anything a musician produces, and they also think that they have an idea about what being a musician is all about as they've listened to lots of music and gone to gigs. Which is simply not the case. They don't seem to realise that they just have no real understanding. They have an opinion, great. But the internet seems to be showing up the fact that a lot of people value their opinions higher than expert knowledge - what they think they know is more important than the facts themselves and if you stop listening to those facts, you'll be in blissful ignorance. Anyway. I seem to have drifted into a "non musician versus musician" post, rather than a "piracy bad" post. Musicians will keep being pirated, and devalued, if non musicians fail to realise how much work and dedication goes into becoming a musician. It takes decades of hard, hard work to become good. With bands who are just starting up, yes, they'll keep producing music until they get totally disheartened by being ripped off, but they'll get disheartened before they mature and become good. End result, musicians jump ship. Don't assume that they won't just play amongst themselves, not every one of them needs or necessarily wants to do live music in front of an audience. |
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