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Topic ClosedShould Captain Beefheart be considered prog rock?

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Affek View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2016 at 02:33
HackettFan, he ceritanly is stranger than anything, Trout Mask Replica is one of the reasons I think Beefheart should be classified as prog - this album pushed boundaries of what rock music is capable of further than anything else. But on the other hand, Safe As Milk is a straightforward blues, which wasn't as progressive as, for example, This Was by Jethro Tull, which had some hints of what was going to happen with the band in near future. Zappa was rather grounded in doo-woop, but his work was progressive from the beggining. I think that calssifying Van Vliet as Avant-prog is very suitable for him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 22:50
Beefhart is more Jazz than Blues and stranger still than any of that. I definitely don't know why being bluesy would be grounds for rejection from the Prog ranks. There's lots and lots of blues throughout well accepted Prog acts, Steve Hackett being one of them. Beefhart's childhood friend, Frank Zappa, was another. Jade Warrior was another. It varies in dosage, but it's pretty ubiquitous.




Edited by HackettFan - April 03 2016 at 22:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 22:22
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

You might be right; I didn't get interested with late stuff, dropped off around Bat Chain Puller, as his albums are nearly unavailable here. I always had the impression of Cap'n being just a avant-blues musician, who was claimed as a prog rocker by the critics. Got a little confused because of it, so came here to talk over this. Don't want to get off topic by talking about how alive prog rock is, but my personal opinion is that it was always about pushing boundaries further and further, and the last one was pushed by the punk revolution in late seventies, so there is no need for prog nowadays. But it's just my opinion.

That's why the forum is here! We're happy to assist you in your prog reference needs :) I have never looked but i assume everything (minus the most obscure) is available for your listening pleasure on YouTube these days. 

As far as prog pushing boundaries, you do have a point. I have seen many a claim especially by Guldbumsen that prog isn't the most cutting edge anymore but it has become more of an ossified subgenre of rock. True dat but it is still enjoyable to listen to. That's just the nature of anything new. It appears, it blows minds and then becomes part of life. Meanwhile something totally unexpected does the same. There will never be another 70s prog explosion IMHO but there is still plenty of excellent music that takes old ideas and new to create clever new ways of experiencing things as never before. By all means, please don't submit to snobbery! Prog still has plenty of oompf in its soul :)

BTW where do you reside in Poland? I have been there multiple times pretty much in every corner of the country. One of my favorite countries in Europe actually :)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 21:53
Originally posted by infocat infocat wrote:

Errmmm...  http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1471

Oh sure, he may be listed on this site as RIO/Avant prog, but he should be listed under REAL PROG.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 21:05
--
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 19:00
I think the good Captain would definitely belong here.  If nothing else you could argue Trout Mask Replica was RIO/Avant and Doc at the Radar Station was eclectic prog...especially the mellotron drenched Sue Egypt Wink

I'd be shocked if Beefheart hasn't already been nominated in the "Suggest New Bands" forum.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 17:17
At the same time 'prog' was supposedly dying, the Captain was one of the few trying to keep it alive. He didn't get rich doing it and finally just gave up. BTW he was an influence on punk.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 16:46
Yes.
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Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:57
You might be right; I didn't get interested with late stuff, dropped off around Bat Chain Puller, as his albums are nearly unavailable here. I always had the impression of Cap'n being just a avant-blues musician, who was claimed as a prog rocker by the critics. Got a little confused because of it, so came here to talk over this. Don't want to get off topic by talking about how alive prog rock is, but my personal opinion is that it was always about pushing boundaries further and further, and the last one was pushed by the punk revolution in late seventies, so there is no need for prog nowadays. But it's just my opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:50
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

Well, his singing style adds to the overall bluesy feel, but I think that most of his early stuff is a little psycheldelic blues, while it gets more jazzy and avant-garde (cheesy rock too, but we all want to forget about that) with time. But his last three albums, which you mention happened long after prog rock was dead and smelling funny.


Every album doesn't have to qualify as prog for inclusion here and I agree his earliest stuff wouldn't let him in the club but before you decide he should have his membership revoked I suggest you check out his crazier albums while reading the guidelines for inclusion. He checks off every attribute on the list . BTW prog never died. It just took a little snooze
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:45
Even Trout Mask Replica has plenty of avant-garde jazz riffs of the Ornette Coleman / Don Cherry style to qualify as prog rock. He was certainly unique in his approach but definitely belongs here IMHO
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:44
Well, his singing style adds to the overall bluesy feel, but I think that most of his early stuff is a little psycheldelic blues, while it gets more jazzy and avant-garde (cheesy rock too, but we all want to forget about that) with time. But his last three albums, which you mention happened long after prog rock was dead and smelling funny.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:31
There's just as much jazz in his music as blues; it's probably his singing style which makes you think the music is more bluesy than it is. I think his most stereotypical 'proggy' stuff was his last three albums which have very little blues influence and incorporate synths and Mellotron.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2016 at 14:25
Hello, fellow progers! It's my first post on this forum (and I hope not last). I've come across and interesting dilemma - should Cpt. Beefheart be considered as a progressive rocker? He considered to the genre like no other, but on the other hand his work is more blues oriented than progressive, with possible exception of Mirror Man, but it's still more bluesy jam than a progressive suite. I think of him as a blues musician who just happened to influence progressive music with his avant-garde pieces like Trout Mask Replica or more refined Lick My Decals Off, Baby. I'm sorry if it's been discussed dozens of times, I'm interested in your opinions. And I really apologize for any mistakes in this text, as I'm no native English speaker.
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