King Crimson "Red"

Bitterblogger wrote: Its pull-no-punches overall bleakness was magnificently realized, but it lacks the change of mood in the other two, which have lighter moods to enjoy. So I'll go with USA so I can get material from all three

I have not got USA, but as I understand it, I prefer Collectible King Crimson Vol 1, which includes the same concert from USA, but without edits and overdubs (Eddie Jobson over David Cross, as far as I understand, on USA). Plus, it has another concert which contains my very favourite version of Starless.

I remember reading a review of "Red" at the time that said that the faces of Fripp, Wetton and Bruford on the album cover very accurately reflected the mood of their music on the album.  I've always thought that was a very accurate comment, you decide! 

Couldn't have said it better.  And for those reasons, Red is the only one of their albums that speaks to me at an emotional level.  Just love the directness of the music; just leaps out of the speaker.  Discipline also leaps out of the speaker but by being very rhythmically pulsating.  Again, Fripp was very much in step with the times.

I like Red - A LOT! Sure, LTIA was a brilliantly artistic album, but Red brought it back a notch without losing a crisp realization of how powerful the LTIA-era players were as a whole. Good thread, Maynard.

Edited by Rednight - November 17 2015 at 11:39

Dellinger wrote:   On the contrary, I rather like Heavy music (and Heavy Metal) a lot... well, up to a certain point, it's got to have melodies I like, and grunting will put me off most of the times). And I'm not saying I don't like Fallen Angel and One more Red Nightmare, it's just that I don't feel they are very emotional in the music department (and, indeed, they were the songs that took me the most time to apreciate on the album - apart from Providence which I still don't like -, but I do like them). And about Wetton, indeed I have never really liked his singing, and in King Crimson (and UK) it's taken me a lot of time to get used to his voice, and I still like the music despite his singing (I do love his bass playing, though). On Asia, somehow his singing doesn't bother me, except live, where he seems to have some trouble singing as pleasantly. And still, somehow when he has sung Lake's stuff, I find I enjoy his singing very much (as well as when he sings Genesis stuff with Hackett). So, I don't know, I guess it depends on the songs and on the period of his life the recordings were done... and perhaps on whether he had some studio help or not.

poeghost wrote: It's interesting that Red was one of Kurt Cobain's favorites, as I thought Red had a 90s alternative grunge sound.

That was one of my first thoughts too, when I listened to it. One could easily imagine "Red" (the first track) on a Soundgarden album, for example.

rogerthat wrote: Dellinger wrote: rogerthat wrote: Fallen Angel is very emotional too.  IMO more so than Exiles because the former is more focused.  Of course it's just my opinion and it's very difficult to have a discussion about emotional resonance, lol.  Once again, I may need to listen to it again, but my impression is that Fallen Angel may be more emotional on the lyrics department... yet the music is rather mechanical (on this one and on One More Red Nightmare). On Exiles it is the music that does the trick for me. Still, no song like Epitaph for the emotion department within the King Crimson discography... actually also within prog, and even rock in general. Wow, guess you react badly to heavy music!  Fallen Angel has amazing textures all throughout and a short but aching Fripp solo.  Nightmare gets even better with McDonald's saxophone solo as well as outro.  They both have a rawness that Epitaph doesn't even come close to, being so mannered and symmetrical.  Wetton's singing is pretty mechanical compared to Lake, that I give, which is one of the reasons why I've never understood the Wetton hype (vocals wise, fantastic bassist).

On the contrary, I rather like Heavy music (and Heavy Metal) a lot... well, up to a certain point, it's got to have melodies I like, and grunting will put me off most of the times). And I'm not saying I don't like Fallen Angel and One more Red Nightmare, it's just that I don't feel they are very emotional in the music department (and, indeed, they were the songs that took me the most time to apreciate on the album - apart from Providence which I still don't like -, but I do like them).

And about Wetton, indeed I have never really liked his singing, and in King Crimson (and UK) it's taken me a lot of time to get used to his voice, and I still like the music despite his singing (I do love his bass playing, though). On Asia, somehow his singing doesn't bother me, except live, where he seems to have some trouble singing as pleasantly. And still, somehow when he has sung Lake's stuff, I find I enjoy his singing very much (as well as when he sings Genesis stuff with Hackett). So, I don't know, I guess it depends on the songs and on the period of his life the recordings were done... and perhaps on whether he had some studio help or not.

Dellinger wrote: rogerthat wrote: Fallen Angel is very emotional too.  IMO more so than Exiles because the former is more focused.  Of course it's just my opinion and it's very difficult to have a discussion about emotional resonance, lol.  Once again, I may need to listen to it again, but my impression is that Fallen Angel may be more emotional on the lyrics department... yet the music is rather mechanical (on this one and on One More Red Nightmare). On Exiles it is the music that does the trick for me. Still, no song like Epitaph for the emotion department within the King Crimson discography... actually also within prog, and even rock in general.

Red is their best for me by far. And it's not because it just has 'Starless'. I find LTIA Pt. I to be on the same level as it. Larks always seemed inconsistent to me (I just do not see the appeal in 'Exiles') and ITCOTCK has been overplayed by me so much that I've lost interest. 

HackettFan wrote: Indeed. 'Dinosaurs' he referred to them as. He certainly followed the small independent mobile intelligent unit approach. In his solo and collaborative work to follow. I remember an interview in which Fripp criticized the business model of trying to hit it big. He pointed out that an independent self-produced album selling a modest 100,000 copies could amount to a small fortune. Of course he was a little premature in his prediction. There were plenty of arena acts throughout the 80s, including the reformed Crimson.

Edited by cstack3 - November 15 2015 at 20:27