How is this Prog?

WeepingElf wrote: OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

Cynic
Tessaract
Anathema

Seriously, check out their lyrics. The umpteenth time I've seen your description of 'cynic-nihilistic outlook' in the last month and it's getting irritating. I think you're overstating the point, as there are a lot of exceptions.

Edited by twalsh - August 13 2015 at 09:36

^Sabbath seem to fit to the prog related category just as well as Led Zep does, so it's a mystery to me why they are not included in PA too. Perhaps if they had some dots over the A in their name.

OK.  You asked for it, so don't complain.  As you certainly know from some other threads (most notably the Wider and narrower senses thread), there are several things which are often considered prog where I ask, How is this prog?  Tool and their ilk (I haven't even found a decent term for that subgenre, everyone just calls it, IMHO utterly inappropriately, "prog metal", as if Dream Theater and Queensrÿche - the latter are IMHO borderline prog, BTW - did the same thing), tech metal (which essentially breaks down the prog formula to mere instrumental acrobatics, leaving the cynic-nihilistic outlook of extreme metal untouched), djent (more of the same) and math rock (idle play with numbers, skilful but say-nothing).  Also, the various stripes of psychedelic and stoner rock (drawing out songs under the influence of psychedelic drugs is not the same as prog composition!).

That's the point - some 'mainstream' rock bands have progressive elements that means they are included on PA.  Rush are a moot point, but Opeth, etc...

hell wasn't Zeppelin added in the midst of the M@X years.. oh those were great times here.. *TORMAN MAXT* when he decided to take an active interest here. Word/Rumor was HE wanted them added..  probably to get more google hits

How is Coheed and Cambria Prog?

OK lets switch gears:

Edited by SteveG - August 12 2015 at 17:44

dr wu23 wrote: I've mentioned before that I don't consider The Who or Zeppelin as prog and of course I was reminded by an esteemed forum member that they are prog related  and not technically prog....yet they are on PA. Thoughts on these two bands....?

Beats me Doc. I suppose you could infer that a rock opera such as Tommy is suggestive of prog, or that the suite like structures of Stairway to Heaven are like those found on epic prog songs, but similarity to me does not hold much sway. I guess it does to others.

Edited by SteveG - August 13 2015 at 09:25

The Who have a good and unique case for being here in prog-related. Ultimately, they often didn't lean on prog-esque writing - probably the biggest reason for them being here is their pioneering of rock operas with Tommy and Quadrophenia - but they did dabble in that kind of composition to a small degree on A Quick One, Who's Next, and especially Quadrophenia. Considering the band's main style and who they influenced, the latter could be considered the first pronk album.

The case for King Diamond becomes stronger.