Should Ratings Be Abolished?

Dean wrote: If you personally want to add artists then prove your worth and become a collaborator on one of the teams.

Guldbamsen wrote: Don't get me wrong - I would love for things to be different; I just don't see any proof suggesting that members or visitors read READ the frontpage.....and I happen to love writing reviews I do read em though. Man I don't know what I would've done if I'd missed Michael's (Neu!mann) recent Amon Düül write-up. That thing was hilarious and wonderfully written.

The downfall of the reviews as a guide to buying music was something that dismayed me a bit as well. Reviews are occasionally read still, but as far as purchasing decisions go they aren't what they used to be indeed.

But some still care for them.

- The artists themselves. Reviews, especially well written reviews, are a core feedback system for many artists. They will also use reviews of quotes from them for various promotional activities, and many reviews will also help the artist to determine where and how to direct marketing

- Labels. Partially for reasons above if the artists is signed, but also as reference material if they are considering signing an artist. Something that still happens, although on rather different terms than in the glory days.

- Promoters of various kinds. They will look through reviews to see whether artists will fit certain type of events or not, again as reference material and then one of many.

- Buyers. Perhaps more rare these days indeed, but reviews still make an impact. Often as a part of a totality, a key piece of a puzzle where other pieces needs to be in place as well, but they still have a role to play.

Some years back I started getting promos from a small, UK label called Fruits de Mer Records. They had been trawling MySpace and some other channels for people to write about their releases: Vinyl singles featuring cover versions of mostly old psychedelic classics. I replied them and basically told them to add me to their promo list - but put me last in line.
The first few years the promo letters I got were extensive, flashy affair with multiple pages of gold and colored paper attached to the CD-R promo. I later got to know that the label had a hard time finding people willing to write about their products, and that they were sort of suffering from the spell of silence.

Fast forward a few years and the label have reviewers in place, are played and promoted on radio, their promo sendouts, now more regular one-sheets and with generally less stuff sent out, sell at fairly steep prizes whenever they hit ebay. Their vinyl releases have a tendency to sell out while on pre-order, they have expanded to do albums and original material, and artists and magazines actually approach them for inclusion and coverage respectively.

A grand totality which includes reviews have made that possible, combined with high quality releases this created a buzz that started feeding on itself and spreading. The reviews alone wasn't important, but without them this wouldn't have happened. Other elements, like word of mouth, radio stations picking this up, minor magazine features...all of them played a role, and all of them had to be in place for this development to take place.

You can to some extent see something similar on a more general level. Releases by Inside Out will typically sell more, often much more, than releases by labels such as Mellow, Musea or Lizard. Reviews have their role there as well, again as an element in a greater totality.

The age of reviews as a standalone, important and vital marketing feature that directly leads to sales is gone. They are still important, but now on a different level and, to some extent at least, as a part of a different context as well.

1. I think people will give ratings in their reviews anyway, whether or not a PA-facilitated system is in place.
2. Rating is fun. It isn't necessary, or very beneficial aside from the charts exposing users to albums. Early on, I scoured the charts and found a lot of albums I loved there. I'd hate to lose that.
3. It's odd that people are complaining about overly "subjective" reviews. Faced with an objective rating system, people look for more objective reasons to praise or decry an album. Unfortunately, here that translates to "the playing... the compositions..." examining the music like it's a table (is it solid?) and not someone's personal expression. I'd rather hear people review as human beings and talk about the themes of the album and how certain elements of the music might heighten or undermine what the artist is trying to express.

^ ahh... the elephant in the room.. exposed. As I noted.. it is a different world out there.  I applaud the reviewers here... but how many are really read.  There is a wealth of information out there by hard core dedicated reviewers in blogs and professsion(or not) review sites.

WE have great reviewers here, but sadly are often submerged quickly beneath amateur hour.. that is why I stopped. I sucked....


Edited by micky - July 03 2015 at 09:26

Personally I don't think rating should be terminated, for reasons other have stated already. Ratings and lists are both expected, both features need to be present. Even dedicated, hardcore fans use them as a means of navigation, at least the ratings.

What is lacking are reviewers. New reviewers, quality reviewers. If this site had a reviewing team, it would soon be swimming in enough promos to fill up a swimming hall. Or three. Especially if said reviews were highlighted in some manner - upper half of the front page for instance. That would also, hopefully, create a drive for the ordinary reviewers to develop their skills well enough to become official reviewers. In this age of music streaming left, right, up and down as well as in the middle, those who would need pointers for material to try out on, the unreviewed album list for instance, could get easy guidance to those.

Something that over time would lead to more reviews and better reviews.

If this site needs it? That's another thing of course. Personally I'm not all that impressed by neither blogs or even some sites in terms of how reviews are written. Then again, my mentor in that department is an old fashioned writer, who learned the craft when reviews were still an art form and not just a case of merely stating how much you like an album or not, and at best with some some reasons as to why that is the case.

micky wrote: get rid of ratings altogether as the first step to doing something to improve the site in a larger sense. A grand crusade of prog fans to create THE list. If RS can do it, this site can.. and one a helluva lot better as well.

Edited by Sean Trane - July 03 2015 at 08:53

there really is no reason now to keep ratings without reviews.

The world is a different place today than it was 10+ years ago and the foundations of the site were being laid down.

The proliferation of review sites and of course personal reviewing blogs have taken many (potential) reviewing voices from the site.  Anyone incapable of writing a review here can, and likely is, writing them elsewhere.  Get rid of ratings without reviews definitely.. zero need for them. Also removes the persistant headache the admins have faced for years in combating ratings abuse/manipulation.

I see no one picked up what I had proposed..  so I'll try yet again. 

This thread came out of the what would you change thread. The basis of change.. is improvement.

What does the site really lack.. Passion and purpose. The forum has settled into domestic bliss of getting up a 6am.. catching the bus to work,  arriving home, having dinner with the wife, watching the boobtube for a few hours before retiring to bed.. to start the whole process again the next day.

What the forum need..  a purpose.  The RS top list generated a lot of interest and discussion. I came here to PA's from a site that created directly in response to the infamous RS Guitarist list of 2002. We worked to objectively as humanly possible rank these things. That is what the forum needs..  involve everyone a giant project to replace the current ratings driven album list with a comprehensive and definitive album list. We have a lot of smart people here.. engage them.. make use of them. Bring some life and purpose to forum other than silly polls and oft done discussion topics.

get rid of ratings altogether as the first step to doing something to improve the site in a larger sense. A grand crusade of prog fans to create THE list. If RS can do it, this site can.. and one a helluva lot better as well.


Edited by micky - July 03 2015 at 07:39

Keep the ratings but separate them from reviews. 

Bamse what are you dooing here, shouldent you be wastet at the festival by now ?

someone_else wrote: I don't have anything against star ratings, but I refuse to give them unless accompanied by a review. If I was to decide whether ratings without reviews were to be abolished, I'd say yes. Anyway, the weighting system helps to correct the rating-only effect a bit.