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Topic ClosedPunk: A Logical Extension of Prog?

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Komandant Shamal View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2015 at 04:31
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

To answer the OP, there was a lot of diffrent music, not just Prog and Punk, (...) 
Of course, there was Funk, Disco, Disco-Funk, Funk-Rock, Pop Rock, Glam Rock, Adult Oriented Rock, Hard Rock and so on, but it was especially Prog that symbolized something for punks that they should be against. Well, it's not so difficult to imagine why LOL
It's true.
Quote Srđan Gojković Gile, the front-man of the band Električni orgazam, defines his own view of the Yugoslav music scene in the early eighties: "We thought of Bijelo dugme [a great band, already in PA prog-related section] or Riblja čorba as rural (primitive) bands. We viewed them in the same way in which Sex Pistols probably viewed the bands like Yes or Genesis. We were just kids, punkers and our main philosophy was that everything before us was sh*t, that history began with us. It was not true, of course, but it was what it looked like to us back then. The sensibility that both Bijelo dugme and Riblja čorba possessed was too rural for us but that was precisely the key ingredient of their success"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 15:16
^damn, I was going to post a video of Play With Fire with The Rolling Stones in response to Kommandante Shamal's most recent post.

But here's the link: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gKmmaZrJpc

The harpsichord in the original makes it noteworthy in a prog forum.

A connection between The Rolling Stones and punk rock? Not really I guess but I will add at least that to the discussion
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 03:55
Please mind the videos people!
We have a fair few members on PA with poor internet connections, and when they try to access a page with this many vids it takes about a year to load.
Use some common sense: if the page is already booming with them, then try a link instead or *gosh* maybe a good old conversation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 01:54
^ good alternative; thank you
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2015 at 01:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2015 at 21:29
Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:

Oh yeah, i've just recently learned that the Yugoslav punk-rock band Šarlo Akrobata ("Sharlo The Acrobat")  weren't punk / post-punk, but prog-rock band! I saw them on the PA list! Whether it was you an admin at the time they were added to the PA database?LOL
I would not be surprised...

Please don't bait people, especially if you're new and you're calling out a veteran member.   It doesn't hold much credibility.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2015 at 09:39
Originally posted by Komandant Shamal Komandant Shamal wrote:

 
or whatever else but not punk because there wasn't punk outside USA and UK, right?
give me a break.
Did I ever say that? No I did not. I have already acknowledged that Punk existed in other countries, including the former Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia. Like in all other countries it seems that quickly morphed into other forms of music that are not Punk Rock, all the examples you have shown are from later than 1977 - things moved on and they moved on very quickly. How difficult is it for you to grasp this simple fact?

I'm happy to break anything, including preconceptions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2015 at 09:28
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

More like not very good power-pop, hardly Punk at all. And the Svetonio's two videos weren't Punk either. 

There is a world of difference between Punk Rock and Pop Punk that cannot be dismissed or ignored.

You have established that the Punk phenomenon extended beyond the confines of the USA and UK, and we have acknowledged that fact. But please don't try any harder and please don't post any more videos.
POWER POP? LOL
Oh yeah, i've just recently learned that the Yugoslav punk-rock band Šarlo Akrobata ("Sharlo The Acrobat")  weren't punk / post-punk, but prog-rock band! I saw them on the PA list! Whether it was you an admin at the time they were added to the PA database?LOL
I would not be surprised...
 
 
PROG?!!
 
 
 
 
 
Is this Yugoslav punk-rock band called Fleke ("Patches") was also prog but we didn't know that? or power-pop maybe?
 
 
or whatever else but not punk because there wasn't punk outside USA and UK, right?
give me a break.

 


 

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2015 at 07:35
More like not very good power-pop, hardly Punk at all. And the Svetonio's two videos weren't Punk either. 

There is a world of difference between Punk Rock and Pop Punk that cannot be dismissed or ignored.

You have established that the Punk phenomenon extended beyond the confines of the USA and UK, and we have acknowledged that fact. But please don't try any harder and please don't post any more videos.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2015 at 07:24
@Svetonio, I do love that Sladjana's song "Amsterdam", especially those late 70s kraut-like synthesizers. Sladjana's "Miki Miki" video is pretty well executed for that time. I mean, it's just a few years after MTV was born. No doubt that Sladjana Milošević was very popular Yugoslav post-punk artist in late 70s and 80s as a nice looking and talented female singer with a magnificent voice. Though, I'm affraid that early Yugoslav punk was far less sofisticated. LOL
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 13:06
No more f-ing video's for pity's sake. Enough is enough!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 12:50
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

There was Punk in other countries? Shocked 
 
Just kidding.
 
(...)
I'm not kidding.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 11:01
Inspirational  Approve




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 10:28
There was Punk in other countries? Shocked 
 
Just kidding.
 
True words. Peace. Out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 10:09
Yes, and as Svetonio has pointed out, all the punk scenes in other countries that neither of us have first hand knowledge off ... We can only see the whole picture from a distance, and that on this subject as many others, is the distance of time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 10:05
^ A class response. It would, in all fairness, be remiss if I didn't point out that I know little of the California Punk scene and the thousands of little US Punk enclaves, so first hand experience is all relative. I'm just tidying up a few loss ends before I jump a plane tomorrow into anonymity. Peace to you, also.

Edited by SteveG - March 14 2015 at 10:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2015 at 05:48
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Finally, someone with a clue but still not quite there. Neon Boys' Love Comes in Spurts (1973) channels the 13th Floor Elevators with reverb heavy guitars! Don't Die  is proto Ramones! Bravo! Well done! Clap  
There is hope, after all. I can leave with in peace.
Confused Still doesn't make the music of Television Punk Rock. I have never denied that Television (and whatever Verlaine did prior to that) were formative on Punk Rock, or that Punk Rock is derived from American Psych Rock and American Garage Rock. But compare Television with all those "authentic" "real" Punk bands and there is no comparison.

5,000 miles to CBGBs was a bit too much of a commute for me, so yeah, I wasn't there. But venues in the UK were less of a trek, trips to the local record store were even easier, I could walk to the shops to buy the weekly music rags and reaching over to switch on the radio to listen to John Peel was hardly a stretch. Sure, I have no idea what any of those bands sounded like before they actually produced a record for anyone to hear, aside from the 150-200 people who could squeeze into a sweaty NY club, none of us could have heard them before then. You were one of those lucky few. Good for you. But to say I know nothing about that era and its music and didn't experience it first hand is another of those uninformed assumptions you are so crap at making. Sure all of the information I received of the NY scene was not experienced first-hand, it was second-hand knowledge filtered through the myopic eyes of British Rock press, John Peel, Jon Savage, Caroline Coon et al, and that in turn influenced my first hand experience of Punk Rock as it burgeoned onto the British music scene. Standing in Dingwalls in Camden Town or The Marquee in Wardor Street watching lesser known Punk bands whose names escape me and probably every other person who was there wasn't the same as being in CBGB or Max's Kansas City, it was a filtered, watered-down copy, but no less authentic. Just as watching kids in the provinces pick-up on that style of music in pubs and smaller clubs wasn't quite the same as being in those London clubs

Never-the-less I purchased the first four Television singles and the first two albums as soon as they were released (in 1977), and yup, that isn't the same as seeing them play live two or three years earlier, but that's the best I (or anyone else living anywhere else that isn't NY) could do. In fact that is all that a vast majority of people can ever do on any emergent music scene, or established music scene or dead and long forgotten music scene - all our knowledge and information is second-hand, much of that is anecdotal, based (and biased) on assumption and opinion and some of it is unsubstantiated or even apocryphal. All of it has the benefit (or hindrance) of hindsight and anything that dares to contradict the perception of it (received wisdom) is revisionist as a result of that. No one is an expert, everyone knows something and no one knows everything there is to know about any subject - even those who were there, either as passive observers or active participants, did not see the whole picture. 

Yes your knowledge of the NY scene is better informed than mine, you were there, I wasn't. That does not render my recollections and knowledge from that time moot or wrong. And yes, I've lost the "whatever the hell we are arguing about" is actually about because it seems to me we probably agree on the music of Television as displayed on Marquee Moon, that it is the exception that proves the rule in the truest meaning of that phrase, (where "prove" means "test"), it is an exception because it doesn't fit the rule. This is why I said talking about Television (and The Stranglers come to that) is irrelevant to the topic, a red herring.

So, go in peace.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2015 at 16:44
^Finally, someone with a clue but still not quite there. Neon Boys' Love Comes in Spurts (1973) channels the 13th Floor Elevators with reverb heavy guitars! Don't Die  is proto Ramones! Bravo! Well done! Clap  
There is hope, after all. I can leave with in peace.

Edited by SteveG - March 13 2015 at 16:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2015 at 14:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For those that weren't born in and then resided in NYC and were familiar with the local music scenes, Television were quite a different band with Richard Hell as a member in their earlier incarnation. Quite different actually from what became their defining sound with Marquee Moon. But as the old saying goes, you had to be there.
Yup. And we cannot listen to a black and white photograph. Looking beyond the image, all we have from that time is Little Johnny Jewel, (admittedly recorded after Hell's departure), which doesn't sound like Punk or American Garage Rock either, nor is it reminiscent of Psych rock, even with the twanging bell-like extended guitar solo. 


What about the Neon Boys single, recorded in 1972 and released in 1980?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2015 at 14:09
^Yes, I posted it. But you commented on it.
 
So long Dean, and good luck.
 
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