The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread |
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 05:56 | |
I'm just glad you've gotten out of that cycle, Dean. I'm not remotely religious, as you are aware but I can say that you do not find religion, religion finds you. You have to choose one and stick with it (or rather, it finds you and you stick with it, unless you completely lose faith, of course).
Of course, that also means non-beliefs, such as atheism and agnosticism. Moving through different religions won't really help you. Dean, was that the Children of God? I'm just curious. Edited by James - June 04 2009 at 05:56 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 05:39 | |
No real epiphany for me I just walked away.
I was raised a C of E christian, went to church and Sunday school, joined the campanologists (the only time I've ever been a member of a musical group) and rang the church bells every Sunday and at weddings and funerals, but never "got" that institutionalised form of worship - to me it seemed that "church" should be vehicle and not the be all and end all of a religion. So when I was 16 I joined an evangelical church, and regularly visited other baptist and pentecostal churches, (I even joined a catholic youth club), and went to prayer meetings, bible readings, joined discussion groups (that never really seemed to discuss anything) in several of those churches and read teenage pulp christian literature like "The cross and the switchblade". Through all that I got into christian rock, (which to a 16 year old seemed the perfect solution - god getting down with the kids), and attended several Greenbelt christian rock festivals. And I have to admit I was taken in by the whole thing - I saw the light and was born again, I was one of the chosen, speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, the works.
During this time I was approached by some members of a fundamentalist christian commune who invited me to stay with them for the a while, I had heard rumours of them before, but curiosity got the better of me - I wanted to experience first hand what they were about, so I went along. Now, as I said, no real epiphany - I was affected by what I saw there, so much so that if they had told me there and then that I could stay forever I would have done in an instant, except for two small events that planted the seed of doubt in my mind: the first occurred during a communal sing-a-long, we were sat around singing christian songs (even carols in the middle of summer) when one lad picked up a guitar that someone had left in an non-standard tuning and played a few bars of blues - everyone stopped and glared at him, he flushed an embarrassed look and quickly re-tuned the guitar; the second was the following day when another guy took me to one side and asked me about Pink Floyd and The Moody Blues as he as a big fan before joining the commune - I told him that Floyd had just released a new album (WYWH) that was dedicated to Syd Barrett and it was the most beautiful music I'd ever heard - his face was one of pure joy at this news, but his eyes told a different story - they were brimming with a deep sadness and loss. At that moment I knew I could never give up secular music, so I just walked away.
From then on I lost my faith - my overriding desire to question everything was not being answered to my satisfaction, 'speaking in tongues' was gibberish, creation was a being bent into a lie, no one was ever healed by the 'laying on of hands', 'prayers' were selfish, 'man in god's image' was a reflection of man's arogance, the bible was not "the word" but a bad translation... in the end I just walked away.
Later in life I tried Wiccian but could not reconcile the fact that it wasn't a real pagan religion, but a romantic victorian idea of what the true ancient religion may have been like. And I have read Le Vey's Satanic Bible and Satansism was not for me.
Edited by Dean - June 04 2009 at 05:42 |
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What?
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 05:08 | |
Well I've also been an atheist all of my life. I've never once believed in God or had any religious views. My father is staunchly atheist (very much like myself) and my mother is too (I think; she never really discusses it. I think she's more agnostic if anything).
Neither of them (or my elder brother's) forced anything on me. I just have always thought the idea of God is complete rubbish. I guess it may partly be due to my interest in Dinosaurs when I was about 8 or so as well but even then, I do not think I had any views. Having said this, I did find an old school book of mine earlier this year from when I was about 6 or 7 (perhaps younger) and in it, I do mention God. Very odd! At that age it must have been mentioned at school. I do remember once at school one of the teachers asking what was special about that day. Nobody knew except me. It was Epiphany. I think I had read it in a diary the day before. Edited by James - June 04 2009 at 05:09 |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 04:38 | |
Its a load of bollocks.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 03:43 | |
Click
Here to see if reality
Marc Perkel's ChurchIf it's Real - we believe in it!
Edited by Slartibartfast - June 04 2009 at 04:08 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Jimbo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 28 2005 Location: Helsinki Status: Offline Points: 2818 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 03:30 | |
Yes, I always found that one particularly funny. People who use such lines indirectly admit to being 'good' only because of fear of a higher power. Where's the moral in that, one might ask? I have been an atheist for as long as I remember, although I don't believe children can be religious/non-religious as such. They do not have the means to grasp such things yet. Moreover, religion is completely irrelevant to the average 8-year old who's main concern is where to get his next dosage of ice-cream. I believe spirituality/religion is something you should learn about on your own. Preferably at a time when you feel ready to tackle such issues. Here in Finland, you are forced to choose between religion and ethics when you start school - I think it's absolutely ridiculous. Religion shouldn't be taught at that age, imo. As for me, religion was a non-issue at our house. My parents are both atheists, but they didn't force their way onto me, instead, they strongly encouraged me 'to find my own way', so to speak. |
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24295 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 03:13 | |
Then may I be so bold to suggest that you change it once again? One can be a Christian without being religious, albeit hard for some to tell faith from religion. Moreover, Jesus hates religion.
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 02:49 | |
Religion is a crutch for some, for other it isn't. For some it works the opposite way; they drive themselves to brink of suicide by creating impossibly high standards for themselves to live up to. That's kinda the way I go. I was the only kid I ever knew that gave up video games for lent b/c I thought they were probably immoral indulgences. But I have a lot of OCD issues in general, so it kinda depends on your personality I suppose. |
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 02:43 | |
I haven't moved away from religion (yet at least, but I don't think I will.), but I started distancing myself from the Methodist church I was raised in when I was 17. Listening to some old guy ramble on about his beliefs is not the ideal way to discover truth, IMO. As far as music goes, I can listen to almost any type of lyrics (Christian, Atheist, occult) as long as they are not overly hateful or intolerant toward any other school of thought.
Here's one I bet you guys hear a lot? "What's the use in trying to be good or accomplish anything if there's no higher power?" That's the typical weak religious mainline argument against atheism. However, I think that an atheist point of view in some ways raises the stakes. You don't have any external source to rely on for meaning, instead you have to create your own meaning. Plus this being the only life you get, you've not got any afterlife to fall back on. No mulligans as per reincarnation either. |
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 13 2006 Location: Xanadu Status: Offline Points: 16111 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:38 | |
How could I forget that!? I was so upset when I heard that Snakes and Arrows was going to be a "highly religious" album - that is - until I found out that they had the same thought pattern as me. No one gets to their "heaven" without a fight. Edited by King By-Tor - June 04 2009 at 00:41 |
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:36 | |
I was christened Anglican and moved to Methodist, then experimented with a lot of other religions
Now, I have come to the conclusion that religion is just a psychological crutch to get through life.
So now I am agnostic and will be a man and die with my boots on!!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65260 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:34 | |
or 'Freewill' |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:25 | |
I was confirmed as a Methodist (got me when I was young, as per usual), and slowly just stopped believing any of that. It took awhile to shake off the fear of Hell n such, but that's mostly gone now. Then probably around 17 I wandered in deism and began getting into philosophy. By 18 I think I was more or less fully agnostic, but practically atheist. Now I'm in a hilarious stage where I'm trying not to care. Ideally, I want to be an apathetic agnostic--God might be there, religions are silly, who knows so why bother? Also, everything the Christians said about God is necessary for morality is true...but there probably isn't a Christian God, so I don't think any objective morality is possible, though it may seem so. Oh the hilarity! Currently, I'm an Existential Aspiring Apathetic Agnostic Hedonist Who Does Not Have Solid Ground to Stand On and Thus Does Not Wish to Make Rash Decisions That May Harm People.It sux.
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 13 2006 Location: Xanadu Status: Offline Points: 16111 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:09 | |
see "Faithless" or "Ghost Of A Chance" by Rush.
It so happens that Peart's beliefs mirror my own |
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 24 2007 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 25210 |
Posted: June 04 2009 at 00:03 | |
I have been an atheist for my whole life.
I went to church one with my mum cos I was too young to stay home by myself at the time (well I probably was but my mum didn't trust me at any rate, lol, I must have been about 11 years old) and there was dude rambling about hell for 4 hours. It was the most boring sh*t ever. Absolutely no offense intended to anyone religious reading this, but I honestly don't get how people go to a church service and not fall asleep or bring their iPod to listen to for the entire time, lol. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 03 2009 at 23:20 | |
^ Almost the exact sentiments of my Anthro prof!
Funny, it was actually biology that tipped me from leaning "no higher power" to there is one |
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KoS
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 17 2005 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 16310 |
Posted: June 03 2009 at 23:00 | |
I was raised Catholic but religion never gelled with me. Always found it a bit odd to be told that god exists but Santa doesn't. In middle school, I read a lot about evolution(Started with reading Jurassic Park in 5th grade). In the beginning of high school, I read some Crowley and other Occultists and thought it was BS. I realized if these guys can write this sh*t, then the Bible isn't all that special.
What really made me an ardent atheist is taking anthropology courses and taking a course in early literature. The anthropology courses just opened my eyes more to our evolution and our state of affairs. As Hitchens like to say, we are not much more than self-aware primates. We are not perfect or unique, but that doesn't mean that I live an existentialist nightmare. It just means that humans, like the rest of the natural world came bout by evolution not by the guiding hand of a supernatural being. The literature course, made me realize of the absurdity of holding one particular and badly written book above all others. I mean, every damn culture has a creation tale suited for their needs. Edited by KoS - June 03 2009 at 23:01 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 35836 |
Posted: June 03 2009 at 22:45 | |
I don't believe in free will, but then I'm a "non-believer" when it comes to a lot of things. I'd describe myself as agnostic, and pretty much always would have. I haven't much faith in God existing, nor faith that God does not exist in some form. At times I've "swing both ways" to whatever extent. I like to believe in something greater, but am unsure....( and don't wish to define God into existence according to my vague "feelings"). Don't know the origins of my non-beliefs, I've just not felt convinced either way despite spiritual desires.
Edited by Logan - June 03 2009 at 22:46 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65260 |
Posted: June 03 2009 at 22:39 | |
whatever happened to personal spirituality?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 03 2009 at 22:37 | |
Excellent. And Non-Religious is for sure. Quick background. I was born and raised Catholic but my family wasn't very "religious". I actually went to church every Sunday and did CCD. I went halfway through 8th grade, I remember since we were practicing for Confirmation. It was around here I just started losing touch with church. My mom always, "If I want to thank God for a beautiful day, or just experience him why do I have to be in that building with that 10 in my hand..." She was Russian Orthodox. Anyway, through H.S. I was agnostic/didn't care and did the whole "Opiate of the Masses, organized religion keeps you down etc" In college I had a change in some beliefs obviously, (if you want later I'll talk about my change). But I still....(to be polite) disagree strongly with organized religion/church. I think faith is fine, but it should PERSONAL. Kept to yourself, and does not need to involve church. That IMHO gets in the way of faith and that church's become about making money/getting numbers/or just become corrupt. Without going into a 5 page thing, I hope this gets as much about me across as I could. Again, I'll explain more later. |
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