Do you support universal healthcare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGDdCDTNhWg

It is a very sad day.

The T wrote:

The T wrote: And the really worst thing is that people pro-universal healthcare are losing with the people who say that or things like "goverment don't mess with my medicare".... It's like the rational beings are losing a battle of wits to the gorillas.... really.. with no offense to that beautiful creature, but we all know gorillas are not so knowledgeable about anything....   It is rather hard to win a shouting match with a gorilla.....   The only way one human being could be against universal health care is economic, but based on individualist interests... I can't see an opposition to this argument based on common-good ideas.... It's just pure and sheer individualism.... In the end people want more money to buy useless sh*t (because that's what they do with disposable income, they don't save it)...   My thoughts exactly.

Slartibartfast wrote: Negoba wrote:   And I think this view is bi-partisan. Republicans want to discuss private administration, Democrats wanted a public option, and may have to give it up in order to achieve care for all. So be it. At least the most important part will have been achieved. Without a public option I feel another government giveaway to private interests coming on, like that prescription bill stinker.  Look forward to the continuation of escalating health insurance costs at the same time.

SentimentalMercenary wrote: Negoba wrote: rpe9p wrote: Yeah Obama would do a lot better if he adopted your strategy and just started belittling conservatives because obviously anyone who believes in fiscal conservatism has been tricked by the big businesses or is downright stupid. Its difficult to argue the side of fiscal responsibility on an internet forum because there is usually a large liberal majority, but one very simple thing that you must realize people in the US are basing their views on is the fact that the US has just gone through a huge recession which Obama has tried to fix by loads and loads of deficit spending.  Americans see this healthcare bill and the fact that it will put us another $1 trillion more in debt at least and maybe they feel that this isnt the time to insitute this health care system. Just so people in other countries know, if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of.  They just they wont give you any expensive tests or pay for your cancer treatment for you, and for the most part im fine with that.   You realize you are completely deluding yourself? I am belittling the idea that it's ok to deny poor people care because it is FRICKIN INSANE. No amount of "fiscal conservative" rhetoric will change the fact that a society that runs solely on the "Look out for #1" philosophy will fail. And your liberal majority whining is an excuse.   I believe profit for profit's sake only IS evil. Living a life based only on improving your own station is a sad excuse for a life. And basing a society on the assumption that the only motivating factor humans have is self-interest is a sad statement on your soul.     This is a bit rude. There are ways to disagree respectfully. Your belief that your collectivist views are holy whereas individualism is evil is blurring your sight a little bit and leads you to make quite radical statements me says.   I agree with some parts of what you say. But individualism as the philosophy held by the Founding Fathers is not about not caring for others. You are wrong if you think this.

Edited by Negoba - September 03 2009 at 09:27

Padraic wrote: Like most other issues, it doesn't seem like a discussion on the actual details is possible here.

What are you, a communist? 

rpe9p wrote: Yeah Obama would do a lot better if he adopted your strategy and just started belittling conservatives because obviously anyone who believes in fiscal conservatism has been tricked by the big businesses or is downright stupid. Its difficult to argue the side of fiscal responsibility on an internet forum because there is usually a large liberal majority, but one very simple thing that you must realize people in the US are basing their views on is the fact that the US has just gone through a huge recession which Obama has tried to fix by loads and loads of deficit spending.  Americans see this healthcare bill and the fact that it will put us another $1 trillion more in debt at least and maybe they feel that this isnt the time to insitute this health care system. Just so people in other countries know, if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of.  They just they wont give you any expensive tests or pay for your cancer treatment for you, and for the most part im fine with that.

http://spectator.org/assets/mc/cartoons/8.24.2009_Jefferson_on_ObamaCare.gif

rpe9p wrote: Just so people in other countries know, if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of.  They just they wont give you any expensive tests or pay for your cancer treatment for you, and for the most part im fine with that.

Well, that opinion is genuinely f**ked...

rpe9p wrote:  . . . if you walk into a US hospital missing an arm, they wont turn you away because you cant pay for treatment.  They are required by law to treat you and make sure your wounds have been adequately taken care of . . .

Yes, and where do you think they get the money to pay for those emergency operations? The US citizen's tax dollars! Except in our current insurance system, the management of said tax dollars are grossly inefficient. Would you rather remain in the debt we are in, plus have sloppy management of tax-payed healthcare, OR would you rather be a little bit further in debt, but as a result have a more efficient, government-managed insurance policy where those who can't play for their own healthcare are provided for, while wasting less tax payer money?

This has nothing to do with belittling conservatism; it has everything to do with making decisions that help people. I can't help it if more Conservatives seem to be misinformed than Liberals. That's just how it has come to be. Conservatism as an ideal is not under attack, here. Misinformation and fear-mongering is.

Don't worry, you'll get your wish, because apparently next Wednesday Obama will announce that his public option plan is finished. Because Liberals are spineless, yellow-bellied cowards who won't stand their ground. Looks like our healthcare will remain in the toilet, fellow Americans.