The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread

Atavachron wrote: James wrote: The same goes for Big Bang Theory, of course. I've been having some doubts about that one myself, could have been something far more gradual

Oh indeed.

Nobody is quite sure.

However, I still say something had to come before it.  Whatever happened.  Then of course something came before that.

How can something appear from nothing (unless you're Phil Collins)?

James wrote: JJLehto wrote: I am open minded, so while I do believe in "god" (I like higher power or grand architect of the universe  better) I fully admit that may be a current explaination. For example, what was before the big bang? Nothing? Then it exploded? Was there already a universe "seedling" but WHY/HOW did the big bang happen? It just did? Even if the collapse of another universe occurred and the force tunneled through a wormhole, (which I heard once) what about THAT universe? That's why I personally believe in a higher power. Why couldn't "god" have set things in motion...but it continues on from there without intervention. After all, god would not have to intervene, if everyhting is, indirectly, made due to him its perfect already. Animals and nature co-exist perfectly and we have the mental abilities to solve our own problems. So, god does not intervene in our world because there's no need. All IMHO of course. I do agree with Sean Trane that god would probably hate "religion". I do think it is used as an escape/comfort for people. Some I know for a fact use it to hide from their shortcomings, and I do feel it has been used for control. Besides, as my mom always said, church gets in the way of faith. Finally, the Bible. Just a book. A bunch of nice stories, maybe they're methaporical but regardless they are just stories. I also believe Jesus was an enlightened man, one who probably preached love, be good to each other but was just a man. Not divine. His words have been corrupted/used over time. But who created this God you speak of?

God created God naturally!

Seriously, I say god to make is understandable but I do not think its a big dude in the sky with a long white beard sitting on a chair of clouds. If so I hope he hangs out with Allah, Buddha, and Vishnu playing poker. Watch out for Vishnu though....he has a lot of arms.

Snow Dog wrote: Atavachron wrote: whatever happened to personal spirituality? Its a load of bollocks.

^ That's why Deism seems like a good fit for my beliefs.
That famous question, "How can God love us if he allows so much death and cruelty?"

Well that's God as it is traditionally thought of. "God" may have put everything in motion...a jump start (the Big Bang???) and from that point it's on its own. WE control our world not god

I am open minded, so while I do believe in "god" (I like higher power or grand architect of the universe  better) I fully admit that may be a current explaination. For example, what was before the big bang?
Nothing? Then it exploded? Was there already a universe "seedling" but WHY/HOW did the big bang happen? It just did? Even if the collapse of another universe occurred and the force tunneled through a wormhole, (which I heard once) what about THAT universe?

That's why I personally believe in a higher power. Why couldn't "god" have set things in motion...but it continues on from there without intervention. After all, god would not have to intervene, if everyhting is, indirectly, made due to him its perfect already. Animals and nature co-exist perfectly and we have the mental abilities to solve our own problems. So, god does not intervene in our world because there's no need.

All IMHO of course.
I do agree with Sean Trane that god would probably hate "religion". I do think it is used as an escape/comfort for people. Some I know for a fact use it to hide from their shortcomings, and I do feel it has been used for control. Besides, as my mom always said, church gets in the way of faith.

Finally, the Bible. Just a book. A bunch of nice stories, maybe they're methaporical but regardless they are just stories. I also believe Jesus was an enlightened man, one who probably preached love, be good to each other but was just a man. Not divine. His words have been corrupted/used over time.

Although my four grandparents were practising catholics, my father was always  atheist and my mother more or less agnostic (although she went through the catholic rites to please her parents).

Deathrabbit wrote: Yeah, the whole human domino rally concept of time, doesn't jive well with the creation of the universe, no matter what religion (or lack thereof.) At some point, either something had to poof in from nothing, or something was always there. Either possibility will cook your noodle if you think about it too hard.

If you've read enough of my posts you've probably already surmised that my noodle has already been cooking waaay too long.

Parents and us kids went to a Methodist church when we were growing up.  Had an aunt that was in the Worldwide Church Of God, which I followed for a while.  Great place for free literature and I did their bible study course.  They had a fairly logical approach to religion, if you can believe that.  Didn't have churches and have a lot of beliefs contrary to mainstream Christianity and are considered a cult by some.  Never joined though.  They kind of lurched to the right as I was lurching to left.  I guess I'll have to consider myself agnostic at this point.  Still struggling the the question, if God created everything didn't something have to create God?  And then why does anything exist anyway in the first place?


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 04 2009 at 10:07

Oh right.  I know some musicians joined The Children of God in the 1970s, so I thought it may have been that.

I also met a former Hare Krishna earlier this year.  He's still a Christian though.  Turns out he went to school with me.  Small world!